FIA wants to ban qualifying modes in 2021

[henry]

These appear to be a couple of drivers for this change

1.‘’The multitude and complexity of PU modes being used makes-it extremely difficult for the FIA to monitor compliance with all PU-related regulations’’.

Tbh I find this a reasonable reason.

I would want to know what things they can’t monitor. The modes may be many and complex but most of the the things they monitor are not. If they can’t monitor the elements of the mode they’ll be fooled whether there are many or just one.

[basti313]

I hope this doesn't lead to Mercedes just pulling the plug of their F1 program. We already are in times of crisis globally, but also economically. Don't think FIA could just force a manufacturer to sign the Concorde Agreement and because they refuse to sign, they face consequences by pulling performance off their cars and getting calls against them.

Merc leaving could mean that we potentially only have 1 former champion on the grid for next season. Mercedes were rumoured leaving F1 in the near future, but this could just put things into a high gear.

You think Merc will only sign if they get the guarantee by the FIA to win the next 5 years? But maybe this is it...as many of us think the Merc engine will be even better than the others with modes banned because of its superior overall performance, lifetime and efficiency.

[basti313]

Simple question...stepping away from the Ferrari, Mercedes, FIA Jing Jang:
Do you think it makes racing better to have 10 engine modes on the car?

My impression is, that if two cars are in a race defining fight than both cars will use the highest modes possible. So this neuters each other and just leads to Merc powered cars more overtaking oder being less overtaken....but let us assume all engines are similar...what does it bring to racing that they can cycle through 10 engine modes and that the race engineer tells the driver to change them 100 times during a race?

If I am stepping back from the view on the actual teams and engines...I think the engine modes bring no benefit at all to anything I want to follow or see.

[ESPImperium]

This is bloody sense. Let the driver drive, let's get rid of the 9 to 11 rotaries on a steering wheel and the 40+ buttons and switches on some steering wheels. Ive always said this is a breach of Parc Ferme rules, a change in specification.

Id like to see rotaries limited to 5 and buttons and switches with the McLaren PCU-8D on it facing the driver and just a two clutch paddles and two gear change paddles on the rear.Teams can come up with their own designs.

As for engine modes, this is set from the start of qualifying to the end of the race. Id allow the overtake mode, however this is limited to just 20 or 25 seconds per lap. Allow the drivers to adjust the differential.

Id like to go further, have the FIA limit the amount of data engineers per car to just 6 from the start of qualifying to the end of the race, id also like to see the FIA introduce a new standardised data transmission system as Mercedes use a Qualcomm designed system, one can download the full ECU database to the pits after a stint, in just 10 seconds. Id ban this, only download the data via cable. Id also go deep, id ban data transmission to any mission control during a qualifying session or a race, make the prat perch, driver and garage do all the thinking. Pressure leads to errors, and errors lead to exciting Grand Prix and the cream rise to the top.

Id also ban all tire sensors apart from tyre pressure sensors as well, drivers should drive via feel, like they have learnt to do in the junior formula as they were coming through. If they detest much, then they can gain access to the cameras on the T cam to visually monitor if they wish.

The technology in F1 is not to be underestimated, it needs better control, better understanding as it is vastly powerful, and if it's too powerful to take advantage of, then its power needs to be reigned in. For some, they will detest, often say it won't affect them to deflect. However, many this will level the playing field, dare I say, is this Ferrari helping the FIA via their agreement with the FIA??? There's a Concorde Agreement to be signed, and this may just tip the scales for Mercedes, this could be what's making Toto a little grumpy that Mercedes are taking the fire Ferrari took with Bridgestone in 2004 to bring to the end their 5 years of dominance and Red Bull had with the Blown Diffuser era. He wants to keep their advantage and has seen what the HPP guys when through last year against a questionable Ferrari to produce a superior power unit, he is fearing that the chassis time is now to undergo the same exhaustion based strategy to stay ahead. Theres a power play in gear here, get the popcorn, this will be a fun side quest to the remainder of the season.

[dans79]

Simple question...stepping away from the Ferrari, Mercedes, FIA Jing Jang:
Do you think it makes racing better to have 10 engine modes on the car?

Yes, because as we have seen before drivers can and will screw it up from time to time, and will get overtaken because of it.

Edit: I'd add it also makes the teams work harder, because they have to come up with a set-up that works decently well for all cases.

[Just_a_fan]

This is bloody sense. Let the driver drive, let's get rid of the 9 to 11 rotaries on a steering wheel and the 40+ buttons and switches on some steering wheels. Ive always said this is a breach of Parc Ferme rules, a change in specification.

but

Id like to see rotaries limited to 5 and buttons and switches with the McLaren PCU-8D on it facing the driver and just a two clutch paddles and two gear change paddles on the rear.Teams can come up with their own designs.

Why 5? If it's a breach of the rules, why have any? Why have an arbitrary number thought up by you?

Why stop at 5? Let's just go back to simple engines fitted with carbs, and a manual gearbox with an H-pattern manual shifter in the cockpit. No buttons at all. Absolutely no way the driver can be aided then, eh?

[apexcontrol]

Ahh nice, if you kill ferrari multiple times trueout history, and to the same to redbull and renault, they enjoyed the banhammer for way less.

Mercs are next, just good very good. Mercs had to many profits and are way to strong with there politics.. Good for those freeloading drivers of them.

There poisening the f1 anyway with pink mercedes stuff, they kill genuine teams like mclaren williams renault.

This is great news, can,t come soon enough, would like to see there freeloading driver lineup @ any team @ there liking,

Oh man. This for sure the best thing if have heard in a while.
Concrats to mercedes, youre cars and politics are the best, but it,s not only a merc show off competetion. Is also a racing serie, and we need to racers duke it out.

Glory days

Prost/senna
Shumacher/hill
Schumacher/mika!!!!

Ferrari freeloading schumacher for 3 years

Clory days
Schumacher/fernando
Fernando/hamilton

Mercedes freeloading hamilton 4 years,

Vettel had also the very best car for to long, and for sure he is 4 times nothing, it shows in many ways @ present and in the past.
But he will not make into any list,


And fia if youre @ it, downscale grip by aero, like 60% scale up horse power.by 20% and bring back the need to refuel, kw or fuel

Hybrid age of the f1, the most boring age ever

Cars with no need to slow down for corners,
Full trotle all the way, on railroadtrack

Waaaaaaay to much downforce, the current tracks are just not build for cars like this.
No fun seeing a electrical f1train coming by

This is sure how you show tech at it,s best. Just the right circumstance. For tech to shine.

No room for hero of the track,= no racing

[Wynters]

but let us assume all engines are similar...what does it bring to racing that they can cycle through 10 engine modes and that the race engineer tells the driver to change them 100 times during a race?

Because you have to ration their use. So a faster driver behind can harry the leading car into using it's small ration of high engine modes in order to keep ahead. Then, when it exhausts its ration, the car behind turns the engine up and might actually be able to pass.

It's no different to fuel use. Or tyre use.

It's strategy.

However, many this will level the playing field

The more you reduce things to random chance, the less you reward skill. And why are we excluding all the people who bring their skills to the table, in favour of the drivers?

Afterall, if driver skill was the defining characteristic of motor racing, then people wouldn't be whining so much about Mercedes.

[GPR-A]

This is bloody sense. Let the driver drive, let's get rid of the 9 to 11 rotaries on a steering wheel and the 40+ buttons and switches on some steering wheels. Ive always said this is a breach of Parc Ferme rules, a change in specification.

but

Id like to see rotaries limited to 5 and buttons and switches with the McLaren PCU-8D on it facing the driver and just a two clutch paddles and two gear change paddles on the rear.Teams can come up with their own designs.

Why 5? If it's a breach of the rules, why have any? Why have an arbitrary number thought up by you?

Why stop at 5? Let's just go back to simple engines fitted with carbs, and a manual gearbox with an H-pattern manual shifter in the cockpit. No buttons at all. Absolutely no way the driver can be aided then, eh?

Add to that, drivers to run at the shot of a gun fire and grab their seats and then race off. No assistants to put the seat belt, because, driver has to drive the car unaided.

This irrational move has more harm to the show than benefit. People who think this will hit Mercedes are happy.

[LM10]

Will this ban stay only until the end of 2021 or carry on with new regulations?

[zibby43]

Will this ban stay only until the end of 2021 or carry on with new regulations?

A couple things, for purposes of clarification.

#1 - There has been no ban. Some of us here have speculated that the reason why this *potential* (the operative word here) clarification has been floated for down the road, is because it is being used as a strong-arm tactic by the FIA (who is a party to the Concorde Agreement) and FOM to get Mercedes to accept the agreement as is.

#2 - The speculation that the quali mode clarification is a bargaining chip, and by no means a lock for '20 or '21, is also supported by Chris Medland. It seems that the FIA/FOM are threatening Mercedes so that Merc not only agree to the Concorde, but agree to let the Racing Point protest go quietly.

Hot off the press:

https://racer.com/2020/08/13/medland-f1 ... s-a-sport/

"‘Coincidences’ have been prevalent on many fronts recently, after all. The potential power unit mode clampdown comes soon after Toto Wolff made clear Mercedes was not happy with the terms of the Concorde Agreement and did not want to sign ahead of an initial deadline of August 12, instead calling on Formula 1 to enter into further discussions. The FIA is part of that agreement too, but it was F1 that spoke up and insisted it would not be delayed in signing the new contracts."

"And when there’s negotiating room, you tend to get different participants trying to flex their muscle, looking to force concessions from each other."

"While Mercedes now potentially faces seeing its Saturday qualifying performance advantage reduced – or at least targeted – that threat also comes amid the ongoing appeals against the Racing Point brake ducts decision."

[Alexf1]

I'm surprised the FIA hasnt mentioned their maximum 3% power difference rule yet as a reason for acting now. This should be the case at all times (qualy and all laps of the race) which it is obviously not.

[etusch]

sory if it is already shared

What are qualifying modes?
Qualifying modes make available extra engine revs and the ability to run without harvesting power and diverting it to the battery, thereby allowing maximum deployment of energy recovered via the two energy recovery systems. These modes also typically run more aggressive ignition timing and fuel mixture.

By contrast, a standard race mode will allow adequate harvesting to keep the battery supplied with energy that can be deployed through the lap – without draining the battery and thereby compromising the following lap. It will also typically run lower maximum revs than the qualifying mode and a setting of ignition timing that keeps the valves and piston crowns at a safer temperature.
Typically there are several – up to nine – modes in between the two extremes. This is all about trading off performance with engine life, reliability and fuel consumption.


So what’s the proposed change?
Previously the qualifying and overtake modes would have a time limit per event imposed upon them by the engine manufacturer, so as to keep the power unit within its usage limit. A letter sent to the teams at Barcelona suggests that the subsequent Technical Directive will require the power unit to be run in the same single mode during qualifying and race. This has yet to be confirmed by the Technical Directive itself.

Why is this rule being implemented now - and what impact will it have?
To assist policing. The FIA has to police a number of power unit parameters through very detailed data analysis, and it is felt that this directive will help them achieve that – and have more confidence of power unit legality as a result. Of course, a consequence of the move would be to clip the wings of the power unit which shows the biggest power boost between normal and qualifying modes. At this point that's believed to be Mercedes, with Ferrari showing the least difference between the two modes. Renault and Honda are quite similar in between those two extremes.

The move would save expensive development programmes for Honda, Renault and Ferrari at a time when the FIA is very actively trying to close down cost drivers. As a downside, it would reduce the differences in power at any given moment between two dicing cars. Often the passing we see in hybrid F1 era comes from one driver forcing another to use up his energy store defensively, then having none left as the attacking driver deploys.

https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/arti ... UFncL.html

[basti313]

but let us assume all engines are similar...what does it bring to racing that they can cycle through 10 engine modes and that the race engineer tells the driver to change them 100 times during a race?

Because you have to ration their use. So a faster driver behind can harry the leading car into using it's small ration of high engine modes in order to keep ahead. Then, when it exhausts its ration, the car behind turns the engine up and might actually be able to pass.

It's no different to fuel use. Or tyre use.

It's strategy.

I think this is only strategy if you look at it in a very theoretical and dreaming way. I do not see this in the races. Hunting a car into depleting engine modes is simply not possible with current tires. In the end only the tire defines who overtakes and who does not and if you hunt a car so close to deplete its engine modes, then you finish 10 sec behind because your tires will fail...

In reality you have 2 or 3 laps to overtake, 2 or 3 laps round the pitstop that define the race. In the end everyone roughly runs the same modes in the defining phases. When you take away the engine differences, then there is no difference using modes or not.

[siskue2005]

sory if it is already shared

What are qualifying modes?
Qualifying modes make available extra engine revs and the ability to run without harvesting power and diverting it to the battery, thereby allowing maximum deployment of energy recovered via the two energy recovery systems. These modes also typically run more aggressive ignition timing and fuel mixture.

By contrast, a standard race mode will allow adequate harvesting to keep the battery supplied with energy that can be deployed through the lap – without draining the battery and thereby compromising the following lap. It will also typically run lower maximum revs than the qualifying mode and a setting of ignition timing that keeps the valves and piston crowns at a safer temperature.
Typically there are several – up to nine – modes in between the two extremes. This is all about trading off performance with engine life, reliability and fuel consumption.


So what’s the proposed change?
Previously the qualifying and overtake modes would have a time limit per event imposed upon them by the engine manufacturer, so as to keep the power unit within its usage limit. A letter sent to the teams at Barcelona suggests that the subsequent Technical Directive will require the power unit to be run in the same single mode during qualifying and race. This has yet to be confirmed by the Technical Directive itself.

Why is this rule being implemented now - and what impact will it have?
To assist policing. The FIA has to police a number of power unit parameters through very detailed data analysis, and it is felt that this directive will help them achieve that – and have more confidence of power unit legality as a result. Of course, a consequence of the move would be to clip the wings of the power unit which shows the biggest power boost between normal and qualifying modes. At this point that's believed to be Mercedes, with Ferrari showing the least difference between the two modes. Renault and Honda are quite similar in between those two extremes.

The move would save expensive development programmes for Honda, Renault and Ferrari at a time when the FIA is very actively trying to close down cost drivers. As a downside, it would reduce the differences in power at any given moment between two dicing cars. Often the passing we see in hybrid F1 era comes from one driver forcing another to use up his energy store defensively, then having none left as the attacking driver deploys.

https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/arti ... UFncL.html

Really? is this from FIA? or Liberty? so they are acknowledging only Honda, Renault and Ferrari are not using this mode? and it is going to effect only Merc, not anyone else. So that is their aim.. cant wait to see it backfire