2020 Spanish Grand Prix - Catalunya, August 14 - 16

[dans79]

That’s F1 baby. Remember when they changed the entire points system when Ferrari was dominating to make championships closer? Or when they banned tire changes during the race specifically to handicap Ferrari/Bridgestone’s advantage? Or when they banned the double diffuser? The blown diffuser? Fric? Etc etc.

Which of those occurred mid-season?

If something is disproportionately benefiting one team, shouldn’t the rules or governing body intervene to tighten the pack again? F1 has always ebbed and flowed like this. It is ENTERTAINMENT at the end of the day, as confirmed by Liberty themselves.

No, they shouldn't.

F1 isn't entertainment. It's marketing. The entertainment in motorsport is that of the competitors. That others might like to watch is not why motorsport exists. Motorsport exists for the competitors.

Something exists for the purpose its owners see fit. F1, like it or not, is owned by Liberty media. If they see it as entertainment, then its that, and not a sport.

Sent from my Mi Note 10 using Tapatalk

I've probably read three dozen articles about this today and nothing mentions liberty so I think your point is mute. This is purely the FIA.

[mvfad]

If they want to change the forces of the championship artificially, they should start implementing ballast then. Put 500kg of ballast in Mercedes, 200kg in Redbull, 100kg in pink Mercedes, and 50kg in Mclaren. Ready, goal achieved, Ferrari becomes competitive again.

I know, the numbers don't make sense. But you understand what I mean.

[El Scorchio]

Lest we forget this won’t just impact Mercedes, but Honda and Renault also (ferrari say they don’t have a quali mode this year) - so in essence, we’re in the same place anyway competitiveness-wise -

No we're not. Even from what you've written there you can see it obviously benefits Ferrari if they are the only engine with no quali mode. The same Ferrari who just happen to be way down on engine power this season? Quali mode has been around for years so why might the FIA decide to look into it now given the seemingly hopeless predicament Ferrari currently find themselves in, engine wise?

Curious timing.

Edit- and if it is to happen this season, it comes into effect just before two races at two rather power dependent circuits, where a certain engine supplier could get quite embarrassed by a lack of pace, particularly in qualifying?

Even more curious.

[JPBD1990]

I guess if we’re thinking of it as a way to benefit ferrari, then you’re absolutely right and I take that on the chin.

[Hammerfist]

I think some people are going to have a rude awaking here. It is Qualli modes they want to ban, not Mercedes qaulli mode. It is quite possible Williams will consistently reach Q3 now

How? The only thing that seems to be helping them now is the Mercedes quali mode as Russel is able to make it into Q2 often. In the race, the car is basically the slowest car out there.

That seems to be the thinking of many. We will have to wait and see which engines and cars actually get hit. Remember Lando's last lap 'go to strat 8'? Renault obviously have a high return setting. They probably all have

True. I guess this will reveal the basic power of all the engines. Because I think all teams will run a base power setting to preserve components obviously. Now that I think about it more and after listening to what Hamilton and Bottas had to say, I think it won't change anything at all in the pecking order, and in fact it may lead to a more dominant Merc.

[cooken]

Ummm....

viewtopic.php?f=4&t=29310

[Bsowles]

This year especially, the onboard sound like small size vaccum cleaners.

I almost fell off the chair

Me too!

[JPBD1990]

Back to this race... this track is horrendous in modern F1. Overtaking will barely be possible. Expecting a Mercedes procession. But they did the best job so all is as it should be

[Racer X]

Well tire management might make it a strange luck almost kinda race. Risk management more a less.

[Just_a_fan]

F1, like it or not, is owned by Liberty media. If they see it as entertainment, then its that, and not a sport.

F1 is owned by the FIA. Liberty Media just have the rights, licensed to them by the FIA, to make as much money from it as they can.

[Mogster]

How? The only thing that seems to be helping them now is the Mercedes quali mode as Russel is able to make it into Q2 often. In the race, the car is basically the slowest car out there.

That seems to be the thinking of many. We will have to wait and see which engines and cars actually get hit. Remember Lando's last lap 'go to strat 8'? Renault obviously have a high return setting. They probably all have

True. I guess this will reveal the basic power of all the engines. Because I think all teams will run a base power setting to preserve components obviously. Now that I think about it more and after listening to what Hamilton and Bottas had to say, I think it won't change anything at all in the pecking order, and in fact it may lead to a more dominant Merc.

As others have said this will ban changing engine mode changes for everyone. My concern is that, as the engine modes are used as push to pass, we’ll see less overtaking. It’s a push to pass that’s limited by fuel usage, overheating, engine wear. We’ll also see some loos of ultimate pace in qualy.

I don’t see the point in this change and there must be some unmentioned issue that’s causing this. It works as a sop to the “button Pushing” complainers but surely there’s more than that. It could produce a return to the last few years order of Merc, Ferrari RBR by pushing RP Mclaren, Williams and Renault further Down the timesheet. Is that what FOM/ FIA want to engineer?

[mkay]

The ban is fine. What is there Mercedes didn't achieve in the books of Formula 1 in 7 seasons? They are the most successful team of all time, in the most dominant era for a team in history. With the significant changes coming 2022, it will be a fresh start for everyone anyways. Let's try to have some fun for at least a season. AND the whole ban probably won't make them much weaker. Let FIA try some new things, for all of us.

This much more succinctly says what I was trying to say in my earlier posts that have rubbed so many people the wrong way.

Mercedes is the best. I don’t think this will stop them from wiping the floor with everyone else this season, so WHY NOT? If it gives us some nail biting quali’s hasn’t it done it’s job?

People going on about technical excellence and stopping them because they’re the best - but the truth is no one has any idea what the engines are doing in quali and how they differ from the race, so what is it giving you as a spectator?

It's likely to make overtaking much worse with no overtake modes available.

And... yes people can see what the engines are doing in quali. Pole vs. fastest lap. Heck, even Q1 times vs. Q3 - most of the delta is PU power modes. I don't buy your argument for one second.

[El Scorchio]

I guess if we’re thinking of it as a way to benefit ferrari, then you’re absolutely right and I take that on the chin.

Well, I may be being somewhat facetious in my way of expressing it, the nature and timing of this new directive is very, very suspicious in that regard. Especially if as per the special deal, Ferrari are helping the FIA with engine legality.

‘Hey Ferrari- how does this extreme quali mode work on some cars?’ ‘We don’t know, because we can’t work out how to do it.’ ‘Hmm- best ban it then.’ ‘Ok thanks. Coincidentally that really really could make us much better relative to all the other teams. That’s good timing just ahead of our home Grand Prix where we could currently get knocked out in Q1 or Q2.’

[Harvester]

More rules equals more opportunities to cheat. Now they will probably compete in how to use qualifying mode without being discovered.
When they introduced fuel flow rule I immediately said that it is the area they will try to find loopholes.
And you get in the situation where the best engine may be the one which has cheating tricks that are very difficult to discover.

[basti313]

But this is always the case with any regulation. See the flexi wings as an example, still the rule was good and lead to less extreme usage.
The big question for me is how the overtake button comes out of this. If it is still allowed the teams will use the overtake button...instead of 10 modes they will use the overtake for 0 to 30 sec per lap for example and give the driver a target. Still this would prevent from tricks like increased fuel flow or ignition timing tricks.