FIA wants to ban qualifying modes in 2021

[henry]

Qui bono?

Ferrari, and they have publicly said this is a benefit to them. I don't think this is the real reason, but who knows? I keep hearing commentators say it's bad for F1 when Ferrari isn't fighting for podiums/wins. I don't agree.

Concorde agreement signature. I think this is nothing more than a flex to get Mercedes to sign the agreement.

I think it is bad for F1 if a normal race is always a 1-2 for Mercedes. And this now for 6 years. Honda and Renault are still too far away to ever really compete in this engine formula. Ferrari is gone.
We are coming to a development stop with the V6 hybrid as we had it with the V8, but they need to level the engines before that.

an equalization of the engines, like they did with the v8s is fine. However they are not attempting to do it in anything even close to the way they did for the v8s.

Instead of spreading it out across multiple seasons like they did with the v8s, they're looking to do it across three weeks.

But what will you equalise? There are multiple power levels each available for different durations over a lap.

[El Scorchio]

I think it is bad for F1 if a normal race is always a 1-2 for Mercedes. And this now for 6 years. Honda and Renault are still too far away to ever really compete in this engine formula. Ferrari is gone.
We are coming to a development stop with the V6 hybrid as we had it with the V8, but they need to level the engines before that.

an equalization of the engines, like they did with the v8s is fine. However they are not attempting to do it in anything even close to the way they did for the v8s.

Instead of spreading it out across multiple seasons like they did with the v8s, they're looking to do it across three weeks.

Two years ago oil burning tricks, last year fuel sensor tricks, this year mappings tricks?
I do not see this happening fast.

That's not equalising engines. That's clamping down on things which are in violation or against the spirit of the regs. With regard to engine mapping, I don't know why you labelled it as a trick? It's implying there's something underhand going on which does not seem to be reflected in any way by anything coming out of the FIA or any of the teams. It's a very different sort of talk to the Ferrari thing last year. The only reference to any finger pointing is that tweet from the Italian journalist.

Why do you keep saying they NEED to equalise the engines? What is the need?

[Big Tea]

In past era if teams could not compete they thought of a way to sneak in, such as using the 1.5l turbo rule when the giants had the engines nailed down and even banned devices like the fan car or 6 wheels was an option to have a go.

Today there is no option. it is like a ducks bum. You build THIS engine, use THIS gearbox, the aero fits THIS box This is the fuel spec, and the car has to weigh a ton, oh, and you all use these tyres.

There is not even the option of building a wankel with CVT and coning in at 500kg to have a chance on different tracks.

I wonder why everythig is same-same?

[dans79]

In past era if teams could not compete they thought of a way to sneak in, such as using the 1.5l turbo rule when the giants had the engines nailed down and even banned devices like the fan car or 6 wheels was an option to have a go.

Today there is no option. it is like a ducks bum. You build THIS engine, use THIS gearbox, the aero fits THIS box This is the fuel spec, and the car has to weigh a ton, oh, and you all use these tyres.

There is not even the option of building a wankel with CVT and coning in at 500kg to have a chance on different tracks.

I wonder why everythig is same-same?

Modern society can't handle diversity in my opinion that's why.

[dren]

Looks like Mercedes is now good with the Concorde Agreement...

[dans79]

Looks like Mercedes is now good with the Concorde Agreement...

Now watch the quality mode change get pushback to 2021 or never!

[siskue2005]

Looks like Mercedes is now good with the Concorde Agreement...

Now watch the quality mode change get pushback to 2021 or never!

[Zynerji]

This will turn out to be a nothing burger. It is just being used to get Mercedes to sign the new Concorde.

Edit: I see it was posted before me. Map change not gonna happen now, as much as I think it would be a huge improvement to the racing.

[dans79]

And now Otmar, talking back the RP situation.

[TimW]

I think the reason for the change is mostly what they state, to be able to police the power unit. The gains of qualifying modes are simply a bit suspect. The intention of the rulebook is to have two sources of energy: the 100kg/hr limited fuel flow and the 4MJ from the battery.
In race mode the between engines are small, yet in quali modes 50 hp differences exist. With only fuel and battery as power source, that has to come mostly from fuel (assuming electrical eff. is pretty good and similar), and 50 hp would be more than 5%, pretty amazing at the high thermal efficiencies they have (e.g. 50 vs 53%), and why would the difference only be in quali mode?
So probably part of the gain is from loopholes in the regulations. A bit of fuel accumulation, a bit of oil burning, etc. FIA wants to shut that down, and since they cannot police it, they simply ban quali modes.

Yet to have a sensible racing engine, I think you need at least three modes, normal, harvest and overtake, so how they want to make this work I don't know.

And of course they are just p!ssed off with racing point and mercedes...

PS. I am a composite engineer, so feel free to shoot holes in the above

[siskue2005]

So probably part of the gain is from loopholes in the regulations. A bit of fuel accumulation, a bit of oil burning, etc. FIA wants to shut that down, and since they cannot police it, they simply ban quali modes.

Nobody is banning any quly modes, they are only asked to use the same mode in quali and race.

Interesting
https://the-race.com/formula-1/mercedes ... de-banned/

“We’re able to give it a little bit more power in that last session. If that is not possible anymore, we think we can translate that into more performance in the race”
- TOTO WOLFF

So if this is true then Merc will be even more faster in races

[godlameroso]

What's going to end up happening is a simple compromise. Teams will still have a qualifying mode, they'll have to use that mode to start the race, up to the first pit stop. Then they will switch to regular race modes. This means the opening stints will be very short, and everyone will start on the softest tire possible to maximize the short stint. Then the race settles down. This essentially guarantees a two stop race. This way teams will still have to do energy management in order to defend or attack etc.

This way, one one extreme you can have a more aggressive qualifying but you're going to have a shorter first stint, or a less aggressive qualifying, possibly out of place, but a longer first stint.

[GPR-A]

Link -> MERCEDES CAN RAISE RACE PERFORMANCE IF QUALI MODE BANNED

“It’s a very complex method between the combustion engine and all the energy recovery systems. And I think that by having one mode, it becomes more easy for the FIA to really see if everything is in compliance.

“It has always been the case in Formula 1 that putting back the leaders is something that is good for the sport.

“We see it very much as a challenge.

“We have a good quali mode, we’re able to give it a little bit more power in that last session, and if that is not possible anymore, because everything needs to be smoothing out over the race, it’s not a deficit for us.

“On the contrary, we think we can translate that into more performance in the race.

“And that is something which is a great challenge, which we will take on once the rule is implemented.”

Edit: Didn't see sisuke already posted the stuff from another link!

[ispano6]

Anyone else think it's just a matter of oil consumption being proportional between quali and race. If you use the quali mode in the race you exceed consumption limits. This rule simply makes it so that you cannot have an advantage in quali that you wouldn't have over the span of a race. Or am I unique in thinking so.

Drivers don't need modes to protect an engine, they just shouldn't mash the pedal all the time, they need to modulate their pedal inputs with their feet, like microsteering.

To the same boys down voting every comment I make with regard to oil consumption, watch this video. Oil, additive, water, whatever you want to call it.

https://www.reddit.com/r/formula1/comme ... _mercedes/

It's coming out of the breather. How do you explain that ?

Does that make plumes of white/bluish smoke/vapor ok?

[zibby43]

Anyone else think it's just a matter of oil consumption being proportional between quali and race. If you use the quali mode in the race you exceed consumption limits. This rule simply makes it so that you cannot have an advantage in quali that you wouldn't have over the span of a race. Or am I unique in thinking so.

Drivers don't need modes to protect an engine, they just shouldn't mash the pedal all the time, they need to modulate their pedal inputs with their feet, like microsteering.

To the same boys down voting every comment I make with regard to oil consumption, watch this video. Oil, additive, water, whatever you want to call it.

https://www.reddit.com/r/formula1/comme ... _mercedes/

It's coming out of the breather. How do you explain that ?

Does that make plumes of white/bluish smoke/vapor ok?

I mean, since that is what the crankcase breather is literally for, then yes.

Pressure inside the crankcase helps tame oil on the cylinder walls, preventing too much oil from passing up past the oil control ring on the piston. To help manage the pressure, teams are allowed a breather from the crankcase into the airbox, with the bypass being controlled by a solenoid valve under, which is controlled by the ECU.

The Ferrari-powered cars all started doing this back in 2018. They vented through the rear crash structure.

Photo via @ScarbsTech: