Points system to be scrapped for 2009

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Ciro Pabón
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Joined: 11 May 2005, 00:31

Re: Points system to be scrapped for 2009

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Without words
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Timbo, what do you mean "one of every three drivers"? Those are all drivers that scored in history. Sometimes I despair... :)

I won't explain my point of view: those who can dig it, will do it without more ado. If you want to score points by whining, join an European soccer team... :D
Ciro

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WhiteBlue
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Joined: 14 Apr 2008, 20:58
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Re: Points system to be scrapped for 2009

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Perhaps Bernie started the discussion to fill the agenda. After all the FOTA may start asking for a bigger share of FOM revenues in earnest. He would be in big trouble.
Formula One's fundamental ethos is about success coming to those with the most ingenious engineering and best .............................. organization, not to those with the biggest budget. (Dave Richards)

timbo
timbo
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Joined: 22 Oct 2007, 10:14

Re: Points system to be scrapped for 2009

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Ciro Pabón wrote:Timbo, what do you mean "one of every three drivers"? Those are all drivers that scored in history. Sometimes I despair... :)
I understand that=))
I thout about a graph where would be a ratio of points taken by the driver to the total maximum points he could score. Say Schumacher scored 1369 points out of 2480 he could get. Not bad, more than 50% efficiency, but Fanghio scored 245 points in 51 starts and having that result system he could score maximum 384 points, not counting fastest lap points. So he had 63.8 efficiency, but that points system has a bias towards scoring and his brutto maximum points would be 408...
Still both Schumacher and Fanghio are very good in that respect.

While I was typing this I had a thought - if Bernie wants driver to strive to win he'd better return to the system where only few best results counted, remember 1988!

Conceptual
Conceptual
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Joined: 15 Nov 2007, 03:33

Re: Points system to be scrapped for 2009

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WhiteBlue wrote:Perhaps Bernie started the discussion to fill the agenda. After all the FOTA may start asking for a bigger share of FOM revenues in earnest. He would be in big trouble.
Why is that? Luca says that Bernie gets 50% of the revenue, and the teams split the other 50%.

In such a crisis, why doesn't Bernie drop down to about 20%, let the teams split 80% and use that as a "cost cutting" measure in F1?

Oh, right. Greed always seems to get in the way of these things...

Medals are rediculous. Maybe Bernie should just pay the salaries of the winning drivers out of his 50%?

donskar
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Re: Points system to be scrapped for 2009

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Conceptual wrote:
WhiteBlue wrote:Perhaps Bernie started the discussion to fill the agenda. After all the FOTA may start asking for a bigger share of FOM revenues in earnest. He would be in big trouble.
Why is that? Luca says that Bernie gets 50% of the revenue, and the teams split the other 50%.

In such a crisis, why doesn't Bernie drop down to about 20%, let the teams split 80% and use that as a "cost cutting" measure in F1?

Oh, right. Greed always seems to get in the way of these things...

Medals are rediculous. Maybe Bernie should just pay the salaries of the winning drivers out of his 50%?
Conceptual, you and I could take turns taking a week off - we seem to be much in tune on some points - especially this one. 20%? Good, but 25% or even 1/3 would help very much - both financially and in the spirit of teamwork and unity.

Spanky and Hugestones have done a good job getting F1 (and their bank balances) where they are today - but any very good businessman could have done the same, if not better. The geese laying the golden eggs are the racing teams, FOTA. Without them, F1 is a decrepit old billionaire and an expensive suit with unorthodox sexual tastes.

The teams deserve more money, the sponsors deserve more visibility and support, and the race promoters/track owners deserve to make a living without having to depend on government handouts.
Enzo Ferrari was a great man. But he was not a good man. -- Phil Hill

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Chaparral
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Joined: 01 May 2008, 13:10
Location: New England District NSW Australia

Re: Points system to be scrapped for 2009

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Ciro someone at Motor Sport (the iconic UK magazine) must have a similar template as I remember seeing an article some time back (it may have been on the medal proposal as its been around for at least 12 months) and they came to a similar conclusion that Jim Clark would have won 5 WDC Alan Jones 2 Prost 3 etc etc. I still dont see the point in adjudicating a championship this way its not athletics or swimming for gods sake especially if you have a system of points (for the driver only) that rewards the winner - lets say it runs:

1st 10

2nd 6

3rd 4

4th 3

5th 2

6th 1

Then you have an extra bonus point for pole position and a point for fastest lap to mix things up a bit. The above with the bonus points focus' it squarely on winning.

Now as for the WCC which to my mind isnt what the world championship has ever been about its secondary to me but whatever. If we were to have a system that reflected how the income stream from F1 was split then you could have a points system that runs from 20 points for the 1st place car down to 1 point for 20th or last home - that assumes you have a grid of 20 cars. That works for the teams Im sure especially if the difference between finishing the season 5th instead of 6th is the difference between the team receiving an extra $10 million (for instance) for the 5th place finish. It puts pressure and an incentive on a team to perform at their best (consistently).

A decent points system works for me with the WDC and a differing system for the WCC
The music business is a cruel and shallow money trench, a long plastic hallway where thieves and pimps run free and good men die like dogs - there's also the negative side' - Hunter S Thompson

meves
meves
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Re: Points system to be scrapped for 2009

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A great article by pitpass here on the medals system http://www.pitpass.com/fes_php/pitpass_ ... t_id=36955. It's a little difficult to judge retrospectively how medals would have affected the season as when people get to a dominant point position they will generally ease up but I think the statistic that is most telling is 14 world championships would have lasted less time and only 8 would have lasted longer. For me this alone kills ths idea dead... Why do we want fewer to the wire championships?

timbo
timbo
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Re: Points system to be scrapped for 2009

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meves wrote:I think the statistic that is most telling is 14 world championships would have lasted less time and only 8 would have lasted longer. For me this alone kills ths idea dead... Why do we want fewer to the wire championships?
I like that article
Fourteen World Championship battles would have been shorter (1955, 1970, 1978, 1987, 1992, 1993, 1994, 1995, 1996, 1997, 2000, 2001, 2003 and 2004).

Eight World Championship battles would have lasted longer (1973, 1977, 1979, 1980, 1990, 1991, 2001 and 2005).
:lol:

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Metar
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Joined: 23 Jan 2008, 11:35

Re: Points system to be scrapped for 2009

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I think the most important change would happen lower down in the field. Suddenly, the consistent 8th-6th place finishers could be eclipsed by a one-off podium - Piquet or Barrichello, for example - and a single lottery-weekend could see these guys rocket up the standings thanks to pure luck on a single day. 20 points from consistently finishing 8th-6th would count less than another driver who, by pure coincidence, scrapped together a 3rd-place finish thanks to rain, safety-cars, or both.

donskar
donskar
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Re: Points system to be scrapped for 2009

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Metar wrote:I think the most important change would happen lower down in the field. Suddenly, the consistent 8th-6th place finishers could be eclipsed by a one-off podium - Piquet or Barrichello, for example - and a single lottery-weekend could see these guys rocket up the standings thanks to pure luck on a single day. 20 points from consistently finishing 8th-6th would count less than another driver who, by pure coincidence, scrapped together a 3rd-place finish thanks to rain, safety-cars, or both.
Excellent point. It seems the suits in charge are flailing about trying to make changes - any changes - without due consideration of the effect. I would vote for one change - give at least another point or two for first. I think a win is currently undervalued.
Enzo Ferrari was a great man. But he was not a good man. -- Phil Hill

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db__
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Joined: 09 Oct 2006, 12:30

Re: Points system to be scrapped for 2009

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news just in - looks like Bernie's medal system has been agreed - kinda

It seems to be a medal system with no medals???
Formula One will use a medals system to decide the world champion from the 2009 season onwards, the FIA announced on Tuesday.

The FIA said it had rejected a proposal by FOTA to change the current system, and Formula 1 will instead use the Olympic-like medals system proposed by Bernie Ecclestone last year.

The world champion will be the driver who wins the most races in a season.

"The WMSC accepted the proposal from Formula One Management to award the drivers' championship to the driver who has won the most races during the season," said the FIA in a statement.

"If two or more drivers finish the season with the same number of wins, the title will be awarded to the driver with the most points, the allocation of points being based on the current 10, 8, 6 etc. system.

"The rest of the standings, from second to last place, will be decided by the current points system. There is no provision to award medals for first, second or third place. The Constructors' Championship is unaffected.

"The WMSC rejected the alternative proposal from the Formula One Teams' Association to change the points awarded to drivers finishing in first, second and third place to 12, 9 and 7 points respectively. "

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freedom_honda
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Joined: 23 Jul 2007, 04:12

Re: Points system to be scrapped for 2009

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RIP formula one.

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Fil
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Joined: 15 Jan 2007, 14:54
Location: Melbourne, Aus.

Re: Points system to be scrapped for 2009

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best of both worlds as i see it.
you want championship? you race to win.
you want consistency, collect the points and finish 2nd.

racers race to win. this'll force Lewis to race properly in Brazil next time (or Abu Dhabi this season)..
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RacingManiac
RacingManiac
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Joined: 22 Nov 2004, 02:29

Re: Points system to be scrapped for 2009

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Doesn't seem that bad....since the teams are still racing for the points and all, but forces the driver to actually drive for the win. Should encourage more overtaking, especially if it does come down as tight as last season...

Scania
Scania
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Joined: 26 Nov 2008, 16:26

Re: Points system to be scrapped for 2009

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but... how about if N driver get same gold medal, but the highest points driver isn't in them? :mrgreen: