FIA wants to ban qualifying modes in 2021

[63l8qrrfy6]

Can't think of anything else.

[zibby43]

It's becoming increasingly unlikely that qualy modes will be banned for Spa.
I hear FIA have sent out a draft TD over the weekend for teams to review. This week FIA staff are on holiday so we won't hear anything until next week.

Thanks for the intel.

When you say it's unlikely for Spa, does that also mean it's unlikely for '20 as well?

I haven't the foggiest.. somehow I doubt FIA know either.

What would be interesting to know is if 'the one mode' can be changed from track to track or is locked for the entire season.

It sounds unreasonable to force teams to use a fixed engine map irrespective of track conditions, yet allowing them to change it for each race sounds exploitable and not particularly in line with the cost reduction initiative.

Agreed. Exactly what I was wondering about with respect to one mode for qualifying and the race. You’d think it have to be track-specific with the amount of mapping and optimization that goes on, no?

[zibby43]

I just wonder if proposed rules and/or ECU possibilities would allow for switching engine to party mode (or hammer time mode during the race) for single lap if you rev it over 13000 rpm just for short time?

I don’t know about additional engine revs, but the way I’m reading it drivers must complete a certain number of laps of the race with the engine mode used In quali

So it doesn't say you can’t use a more-powerful mode during the race for say...overtake or hammer time

So party mode won’t really be banned in qualifying, but they’ll just have to use the same mode both in qualifying and race? If someone manages to build an engine capable of using max possible mode in qualifying and several laps in race without it breaking apart after only 3 races, they would be allowed to do so?

Correct - 1 mode for qualifying and the race. So all teams will have to pick an optimized compromised setting. For example, if Merc can run something close to their Strat 3 qualifying mode for qualifying and the race, then they can.

Can’t select a lower setting in the race to save the PU though. That’ll have to be achieved with lift and coast. That’ll also help harvesting.

[63l8qrrfy6]

If you thought driver coaching to save tyres in Spain was bad just wait until they will be fighting for position to lift and coast in free air, 9000 rpm gear changes and being told off on the radio for using full throttle.

[the EDGE]

I don’t know about additional engine revs, but the way I’m reading it drivers must complete a certain number of laps of the race with the engine mode used In quali

So it doesn't say you can’t use a more-powerful mode during the race for say...overtake or hammer time

So party mode won’t really be banned in qualifying, but they’ll just have to use the same mode both in qualifying and race? If someone manages to build an engine capable of using max possible mode in qualifying and several laps in race without it breaking apart after only 3 races, they would be allowed to do so?

Correct - 1 mode for qualifying and the race. So all teams will have to pick an optimized compromised setting. For example, if Merc can run something close to their Strat 3 qualifying mode for qualifying and the race, then they can.

Can’t select a lower setting in the race to save the PU though. That’ll have to be achieved with lift and coast. That’ll also help harvesting.

I’ve not read/heard anywhere that teams will not be allowed different power modes in a race or locked into just 1 mode

As dans79 said, no one really knows how the FIA Intend to implement their idea, but I seriously doubt they wouldn’t allow for overtake & fuel save settings, let alone different ERS settings for harvest/deployment etc

The only logical conclusion is that suggested by The Race , that any mode used in quali will have to be used for a given number of laps in a race to prevent teams having unique quali modes that can’t be used in the race due to high wear

[bill shoe]

Can’t select a lower setting in the race to save the PU though. That’ll have to be achieved with lift and coast. That’ll also help harvesting.

I have a vague understanding that most of the party-modes are achieved with electric turbo assist, plus aggressive timing. So one way around it is to have conservative (race) timing for the first 90% of throttle pedal travel, and aggressive (qualy) timing for the final 10% of throttle pedal travel. Regular usage of the final 10% could also be used to trigger the electric turbo drive.

Unless that is effectively banned by rules regarding torque demand vs. torque delivered. Not sure.

[zibby43]

If you thought driver coaching to save tyres in Spain was bad just wait until they will be fighting for position to lift and coast in free air, 9000 rpm gear changes and being told off on the radio for using full throttle.

[zibby43]

So party mode won’t really be banned in qualifying, but they’ll just have to use the same mode both in qualifying and race? If someone manages to build an engine capable of using max possible mode in qualifying and several laps in race without it breaking apart after only 3 races, they would be allowed to do so?

Correct - 1 mode for qualifying and the race. So all teams will have to pick an optimized compromised setting. For example, if Merc can run something close to their Strat 3 qualifying mode for qualifying and the race, then they can.

Can’t select a lower setting in the race to save the PU though. That’ll have to be achieved with lift and coast. That’ll also help harvesting.

I’ve not read/heard anywhere that teams will not be allowed different power modes in a race or locked into just 1 mode

As dans79 said, no one really knows how the FIA Intend to implement their idea, but I seriously doubt they wouldn’t allow for overtake & fuel save settings, let alone different ERS settings for harvest/deployment etc

The only logical conclusion is that suggested by The Race , that any mode used in quali will have to be used for a given number of laps in a race to prevent teams having unique quali modes that can’t be used in the race due to high wear

This was from RaceFans:

“ In the letter, contents of which were shared with RaceFans, teams were advised a new technical directive will require them to operate their engines in the same power mode in qualifying and the race from the Belgian Grand Prix at Spa-Francorchamps.”

So there’s been some confusion as to whether that means a single mode, or whether it means if you use one mode in quali, you have to use that exact same mode in the race.

But since the latter is already done to an extent (race starts are conducted at full power, albeit with maybe a slightly different setting), most interpretations have veered toward the single.

Hope your interpretation is correct.

[zibby43]

Can’t select a lower setting in the race to save the PU though. That’ll have to be achieved with lift and coast. That’ll also help harvesting.

I have a vague understanding that most of the party-modes are achieved with electric turbo assist, plus aggressive timing. So one way around it is to have conservative (race) timing for the first 90% of throttle pedal travel, and aggressive (qualy) timing for the final 10% of throttle pedal travel. Regular usage of the final 10% could also be used to trigger the electric turbo drive.

Unless that is effectively banned by rules regarding torque demand vs. torque delivered. Not sure.

Would that be legal?

On a side note, I feel a bit like a dolt taking up 3 posts to respond to several good comments.

Really wish we had a multi-quote function here.

[dans79]

On a side note, I feel a bit like a dolt taking up 3 posts to respond to several good comments.

Really wish we had a multi-quote function here.

Right click on the quote button and open it in a new window. You can then copy and paste as many individual quotes as you'd like into a post.

[zibby43]

On a side note, I feel a bit like a dolt taking up 3 posts to respond to several good comments.

Really wish we had a multi-quote function here.

Right click on the quote button and open it in a new window. You can then copy and paste as many individual quotes as you'd like into a post.

Thanks man. Will each poster get a notification as well? Or is it just a means for selecting the quotes.

[dans79]

On a side note, I feel a bit like a dolt taking up 3 posts to respond to several good comments.

Really wish we had a multi-quote function here.

Right click on the quote button and open it in a new window. You can then copy and paste as many individual quotes as you'd like into a post.

Thanks man. Will each poster get a notification as well? Or is it just a means for selecting the quotes.

I'm not sure, but I would hope the developers that wrote the code generalized it.

[saviour stivala]

I just wonder if proposed rules and/or ECU possibilities would allow for switching engine to party mode (or hammer time mode during the race) for single lap if you rev it over 13000 rpm just for short time?

The problem with revving that high is the engines are optimised for the 10-12k region and power drops off above that.

They are allowed a max fuel flow rate of 100kg/h @10.5k RPM, above 10.5Krpm fuel flow rate and therefore the power doesn’t increase. Or put another way, The fuel flow is maxed-out at 10.5k RPM so you cannot burn more fuel, then there is no more energy to use.

[Moore77]

Does anyone exactly know what this ruling is? I read in one place that, FIA wants to enforce that "the mode that a car qualifies in, is the mode in which it has to race" as otherwise, it is a violation of parc ferme. Does that mean, once you start the race, you can then change the mode, because once the race starts the parc ferme ends! Or is it that the ruling is, "You qualify and race with only one mode, all race long and it is illegal to change the engine mode in a race". I am not sure which one is true.

If it is the former, then I assume teams would start the race with the quali mode and after 2 corners, change the engine mode to race mode as they are out of parc ferme.

https://www.racefans.net/2020/08/12/fia ... s-in-2021/

In the letter, confirmed by several sources, the FIA described its intention to clarify the use of modes for the 2021 F1 season by stipulating that the performance settings used by teams in qualifying must be the same as those used in the race. The requirement could be enforced using the existing parc ferme regulations which restrict set-up changes between the two sessions.

[saviour stivala]

Revving-up over and above 10.5Krpm to 11.5k/12k or 13k might produce a faster lap-time but it will not produce any additional power output then at the max allowed fuel flow point of 10.5k RPM, even if (controlling/maintaining) the best optimum airflow volume at the compressor outlet/inlet by (throttling-back) to maintain best possible burn, because the more revs over and above 10.5RPM, the weaker each combustion will get.