[ 2020 ] AMG Mercedes F1 Team - Mercedes

[Jolle]

If or when Hamilton had enough, I expect the F1 stars, next to Verstappen will be Russell, Leclerc and Norris, who all three excelled in the feeder series like true champions. Good racers but don’t have that edge will be Sainz, Ricciardo and Ocon. I think both RedBull and Mercedes made the right choices to “let them go”.

[Phil]

I'm also not convinced that Russel would clearly do a better job than Bottas. As an example; Alonso had numerous team mates and he pretty much slaughtered them all, one by one. Massa, Kimi, Stoffel. Arguably to a much larger degree than Bottas has ever been beaten by Hamilton.

Given that many consider Hamilton and Alonso to be in a league of their own (and Verstappen most possibly in that same list who is also pretty much slaughtering his team-mates, at least bar Riccardo), there is really no guarantee that Russel would do any better than Bottas currently is. I am yet to see compelling arguments in favor of Russel other than that he was great in F2 (as Stoffel has been, until facing up with Alonso) and that most are bored of Hamilton/Mercedes domination and demand a stronger team-mate for him.

Speaking of which; Ocon, who I believe is still contracted to Mercedes and on loan to Renault, well, considering his performance against Ricciardo currently, I really fear for him once Alonso will be in the other car come next year.

[Jolle]

I'm also not convinced that Russel would clearly do a better job than Bottas. As an example; Alonso had numerous team mates and he pretty much slaughtered them all, one by one. Massa, Kimi, Stoffel. Arguably to a much larger degree than Bottas has ever been beaten by Hamilton.

Given that many consider Hamilton and Alonso to be in a league of their own (and Verstappen most possibly in that same list who is also pretty much slaughtering his team-mates, at least bar Riccardo), there is really no guarantee that Russel would do any better than Bottas currently is. I am yet to see compelling arguments in favor of Russel other than that he was great in F2 (as Stoffel has been, until facing up with Alonso) and that most are bored of Hamilton/Mercedes domination and demand a stronger team-mate for him.

Speaking of which; Ocon, who I believe is still contracted to Mercedes and on loan to Renault, well, considering his performance against Ricciardo currently, I really fear for him once Alonso will be in the other car come next year.

I was never that impressed by Vandoorne the way I was impressed by others, more a junior career like Gasly, Bottas and Sainz, needing multiple years in a serie to have succes. He also didn’t make a real dent in Super Formula, with lots of oldish drivers.

Not that you need a junior career like Hamilton to succeed, but most who fly trough the feeder series with a championship every year, do have what it takes.
On the other side of the spectrum we have Raikkonen and Verstappen, who were in an F1 car before they even finished their first car championship.

[Wass85]

The sad thing is Hamilton IMO will have to get beat by a teammate to quit the team, it will happen at some stage I'm sure.

I just can't see him quitting the sport while he's ahead and whilst the team is at the front.

[Jolle]

The sad thing is Hamilton IMO will have to get beat by a teammate to quit the team, it will happen at some stage I'm sure.

I just can't see him quitting the sport while he's ahead and whilst the team is at the front.

As long as they don’t put Verstappen next to him for some Senna-Prost 88-89 action, I think Russell will need at least 22 and 23 to be on top of the car and team. Hamilton would be 38 then and could leave on a high or do a Rossi and just enjoy racing the best cars ever.

[Wass85]

The sad thing is Hamilton IMO will have to get beat by a teammate to quit the team, it will happen at some stage I'm sure.

I just can't see him quitting the sport while he's ahead and whilst the team is at the front.

As long as they don’t put Verstappen next to him for some Senna-Prost 88-89 action, I think Russell will need at least 22 and 23 to be on top of the car and team. Hamilton would be 38 then and could leave on a high or do a Rossi and just enjoy racing the best cars ever.

I think Russell is destined for a seat and not Verstappen atm. Either way I could see both dethroning him, he's not getting any younger and Bottas is now closer to him performance wise that he's ever been.

[dans79]

Hamilton is really giving it to Pirelli, The FIA, and Liberty.
https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/15149 ... al-to-fans

"They didn't, unfortunately, do a great job with a tyre at the end of last year, to develop the 2020 tyre.

"And so we had to carry over the same tyre from 2019 into this season.

"In the past when they made the target letter, the drivers were not a part of that discussion.

"And so that's why last year I went to the meeting in Paris, as part of representing the drivers.

"We want to help them make sure that they set the target letter correctly. It's not been done right for a long time.

[Moore77]

Hamilton is really giving it to Pirelli, The FIA, and Liberty.
https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/15149 ... al-to-fans

"They didn't, unfortunately, do a great job with a tyre at the end of last year, to develop the 2020 tyre.

"And so we had to carry over the same tyre from 2019 into this season.

"In the past when they made the target letter, the drivers were not a part of that discussion.

"And so that's why last year I went to the meeting in Paris, as part of representing the drivers.

"We want to help them make sure that they set the target letter correctly. It's not been done right for a long time.

Many people think, having fast degrading tires is good as it allows for more pit stops and a lot of strategies at play. The one think people forget is, the more fragile the tires they bring, the more management drivers would do, making slower races. Every driver would want to extend the stints and hence, goes slower.

Instead of millions being spent on experimenting with tires, they should simply make 3 compound use mandatory in races and provide better tires that drivers can push and race closely, without having to worry about degradation. I don't think Pirelli will ever achieve a high performing tire, that suddenly falls off the cliff. So far in their attempt, they have only produced tires that blow up after having gone certain distance.

For God's sake, Pirelli should make tires that can provide better show with under 20 PSI pressures. What is the point of having wider tires, that are supposed to provide better grip, but due the high pressures, starts losing contact patch, causing reduced grip. What is then the point of carrying such big tires, that are ultimately a liability with their huge weight without serving the primary objective for which they were brought.

[Big Tea]

Hamilton is really giving it to Pirelli, The FIA, and Liberty.
https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/15149 ... al-to-fans

"They didn't, unfortunately, do a great job with a tyre at the end of last year, to develop the 2020 tyre.

"And so we had to carry over the same tyre from 2019 into this season.

"In the past when they made the target letter, the drivers were not a part of that discussion.

"And so that's why last year I went to the meeting in Paris, as part of representing the drivers.

"We want to help them make sure that they set the target letter correctly. It's not been done right for a long time.

Many people think, having fast degrading tires is good as it allows for more pit stops and a lot of strategies at play. The one think people forget is, the more fragile the tires they bring, the more management drivers would do, making slower races. Every driver would want to extend the stints and hence, goes slower.

Instead of millions being spent on experimenting with tires, they should simply make 3 compound use mandatory in races and provide better tires that drivers can push and race closely, without having to worry about degradation. I don't think Pirelli will ever achieve a high performing tire, that suddenly falls off the cliff. So far in their attempt, they have only produced tires that blow up after having gone certain distance.

For God's sake, Pirelli should make tires that can provide better show with under 20 PSI pressures. What is the point of having wider tires, that are supposed to provide better grip, but due the high pressures, starts losing contact patch, causing reduced grip. What is then the point of carrying such big tires, that are ultimately a liability with their huge weight without serving the primary objective for which they were brought.

https://gtspirit.com/wp-content/uploads ... -Tires.jpg

There are probably factor behind the scenes in play we do not know of too. One that comes to mind is lap time falling below 1 min. They already catch the tail quite soon, and once the pit stops start the track gets crowded.

Action gets squashed together and those not lapping have their race ruined by having to get out of the way.

Marshaling gets difficult, as does leaving the pit box etc, and probably important, the race time gets shorter in the dry.


I can see several reasons 'they' do not want a flat out race other than just speed and the physicality on drivers.

[SiLo]

The issue is they are trying to solve an aerodynamic issue with tyres, and I don't think it can easily be done. If we want more pitstops but don't want dangerous tyres, they should modify pit entrance and exit to skip a small part of the tracks to bring the time in the pits down. This way, more pitstops are suddenly viable.

[Wass85]

Or why don't we force at least two stops?

I know strategy is an interesting part of the sport but at least it should do away with persistent management throughout a race.

[e30ernest]

Or why don't we force at least two stops?

I know strategy is an interesting part of the sport but at least it should do away with persistent management throughout a race.

I don't think that changes much though? It'll still be the same strategies for some races (lots of management + 2 stops like the last race) and on traditionally 1-stop races, it won't change much either, fastest cars will still head off to the distance and manage their pace to save their machinery.

[Wass85]

Or why don't we force at least two stops?

I know strategy is an interesting part of the sport but at least it should do away with persistent management throughout a race.

I don't think that changes much though? It'll still be the same strategies for some races (lots of management + 2 stops like the last race) and on traditionally 1-stop races, it won't change much either, fastest cars will still head off to the distance and manage their pace to save their machinery.

It won't change the order but it will be faster and more physical for the drivers which in turn could lead to more mistakes as they are closer to the cars limits.

[Wynters]

Debrief is up

[Phil]

Many people think, having fast degrading tires is good as it allows for more pit stops and a lot of strategies at play. The one think people forget is, the more fragile the tires they bring, the more management drivers would do, making slower races. Every driver would want to extend the stints and hence, goes slower.

I think you are seriously underestimating the level of thought that have gone in to these tires and the posters who have voiced their opinion in favor of them.

The tires are a necessity as a result of banning refueling and bringing in a strategic element. If you had more durable tires, you'd have no reason to pit. Even if you kept the rule of mandating to use two compounds, you'd end up with races like Socchi where Rosberg could come in on lap 1 and finish the race comfortably on the second set. The fragile tires have brought in a certain level of unpredictability that enhances the excitement and the strategic element. Yes, it increases the possibility that drivers could nurse them around the track to get them to the end, but that is a legitimate strategy that one could counter by i.e. going for more stops and running the tire more aggressively, hence create a bigger delta between tires and thus increase the probability of a successful overtake.

You may note that that is what Hamilton did last year at Hungary when battling Verstappen for the win. That would not have been possible if the tires had been more durable and the delta between tires and their level of wear smaller.

This is no different than the strategic elements of the refueling era when you'd have some cars opting for 2 stints, thus run heavier vs those running lighter but requiring faster stints to make up the losses in the pits. It's virtually the same thing.

I also don't see any issues with tires blowing up - beyond the obvious safety element. If drivers willingly take a risk by running too long on them (or running them with too low pressures that compromises the construction), well, that's part of the strategy. No much different than perhaps running an engine more aggressive for more power at the cost of an increased probability of failing.