FIA wants to ban qualifying modes in 2021

[dans79]

Just a rumor?

Ban on 'quali modes' to be delayed until the Italian Grand Prix

The FIA advised teams last week it would require them to use the same engine modes in qualifying and the race from next week's Belgian Grand Prix. However that change is now understood to been delayed until the following round of the championship, the Italian Grand Prix at Monza, one week later.

The new restriction will be enforced through a technical directive. Delaying its introduction will ensure teams have the necessary time to complete engine dynamometer tests in preparation for the change.

https://www.racefans.net/2020/08/20/ban ... rand-prix/

I read that, and I like how the FIA is now releasing more vague reasons for the ban!

[63l8qrrfy6]

Under F1’s rules performance upgrades are tightly restricted. However appendix four of the sporting regulations allows manufacturers to “apply to the FIA” to make alterations to their power units “for the [purpose] of reliability”.

The FIA suspects some reliability changes requested by teams have arisen because ‘quali modes’ were used to run engines beyond their normal parameters. The requests for reliability changes may therefore be an indirect means of unlocking more performance.

Surely they can still run the single mode at a higher setting and still claim they need to implement reliability fixes ?
Isn't this exactly what Ferrari and Merc were doing in the V8 era ?
As far as I can tell this loophole is still wide open, they must be deluding themselves claiming otherwise.

[El Scorchio]

Just a rumor?

Ban on 'quali modes' to be delayed until the Italian Grand Prix

The FIA advised teams last week it would require them to use the same engine modes in qualifying and the race from next week's Belgian Grand Prix. However that change is now understood to been delayed until the following round of the championship, the Italian Grand Prix at Monza, one week later.

The new restriction will be enforced through a technical directive. Delaying its introduction will ensure teams have the necessary time to complete engine dynamometer tests in preparation for the change.

https://www.racefans.net/2020/08/20/ban ... rand-prix/

Before the Italian Grand Prix you say? Hmm. That's handy for Ferrari.

[63l8qrrfy6]

They might even score points again

[zibby43]

They might even score points again

Mudflap, you were right on the money with your intel (as usual). Credit to you once again.

Another interesting tidbit:

“At a Power Unit Working Group meeting held on Monday, two engine manufacturers are said by sources to have been unhappy about the changes. A further delay to the introduction of the ban, until later in the season or even next year, was also allegedly discussed.”

No guarantees this even happens this year.

[Partymood]

When looking at the F1 I always look at the long term movement of teams opposed to eachother. Since 2016 RBR (and certainly Ferrari) have constantly crept closer to Merc. Then when Ferrari made a giant leap for me that was a red flag. Apparently that was also a real red flag. Now this winter Mercedes has also made a giant leap, especially in qualy pace. The gap is as large (if not larger but OK, RBR is also falling short themselves) as in 2016.

Might it be that there plays more in the background? Like when Ferrari was unwilling to give in, suddenly the very last race they get checked and have 5kg more fuel as declared. If FIA is being lead around the block and they know it, but not precisely how, they maybe a some point say. OK if not left than right. No more qualy modes altogether. There is now certainly a tug of war. Mercedes took its 3rd client team (whilst refusing McLaren engines just 2 years ago), they will not sign the concorde agreement. For me something is up.

maybe that's what the crush them email was about, It was about crushing the FIA. That's a goal I could personally get behind.

What email are you talking about? Do you have a link, please?

[saviour stivala]

One thing that I cannot trace is where does the FIA says it wants to ban qualifying mode. Maybe someone can lead me to where in the FIA releases the banning of qualifying mode is mentioned.

[Moore77]

They might even score points again

Mudflap, you were right on the money with your intel (as usual). Credit to you once again.

Another interesting tidbit:

“At a Power Unit Working Group meeting held on Monday, two engine manufacturers are said by sources to have been unhappy about the changes. A further delay to the introduction of the ban, until later in the season or even next year, was also allegedly discussed.”

No guarantees this even happens this year.

IMO once they look through the ERS system designs, if they find someone other than Mercedes is breaching the rules, they would go slow on this ban. Ferrari is out of the game and nothing can be done to help them at this stage and the only objective is to see if there is anything wrong with Mercedes. If not, then let's move on, nothing to see here. Honestly, at this stage, if Mercedes comes out unscathed and if someone else gets caught, it would be even bigger problem for FIA to even the competition. They have already delayed the ban until Italy, which tells me they are probably not finding what they immediately wanted.

Reportedly, with Mercedes not having used their STRAT 2 quali mode in Barcelona, might have already given an indication to FIA that, they are not going to get anything out of banning the quali mode, which could have delayed the decision until Italy, other than obviously what is quoted above.

[MtthsMlw]

https://www.auto-motor-und-sport.de/for ... direktive/

[Phil]

https://www.auto-motor-und-sport.de/for ... direktive/

Wow. This actually seems more complicated than simply not having a ruleset to ban the qualifying mode.

[zibby43]

They might even score points again

Mudflap, you were right on the money with your intel (as usual). Credit to you once again.

Another interesting tidbit:

“At a Power Unit Working Group meeting held on Monday, two engine manufacturers are said by sources to have been unhappy about the changes. A further delay to the introduction of the ban, until later in the season or even next year, was also allegedly discussed.”

No guarantees this even happens this year.

IMO once they look through the ERS system designs, if they find someone other than Mercedes is breaching the rules, they would go slow on this ban. Ferrari is out of the game and nothing can be done to help them at this stage and the only objective is to see if there is anything wrong with Mercedes. If not, then let's move on, nothing to see here. Honestly, at this stage, if Mercedes comes out unscathed and if someone else gets caught, it would be even bigger problem for FIA to even the competition. They have already delayed the ban until Italy, which tells me they are probably not finding what they immediately wanted.

Reportedly, with Mercedes not having used their STRAT 2 quali mode in Barcelona, might have already given an indication to FIA that, they are not going to get anything out of banning the quali mode, which could have delayed the decision until Italy, other than obviously what is quoted above.

Looks like they’re going through with it at Monza, with several exceptions.

[63l8qrrfy6]

So now they say they can use the overtake button with alls bells and whistles in the race, but not in qualy. So much for the parc ferme justification.
Cost reduction ? Teams will still have to create and validate 2 new engine modes for each race event. Fewer than before but they will still throw all their resources at it to get it right.
Driving unaided? Look at Barcelona, no engine mode bans will stop them driving to a delta and being coached through each corner.

[Pany]

So now they say they can use the overtake button with alls bells and whistles in the race, but not in qualy. So much for the parc ferme justification.
Cost reduction ? Teams will still have to create and validate 2 new engine modes for each race event. Fewer than before but they will still throw all their resources at it to get it right.
Driving unaided? Look at Barcelona, no engine mode bans will stop them driving to a delta and being coached through each corner.

Should be a good compromise for the show. Probably they will also add a "safetry mode" depowered 90% more or less in case of problems of any kind, to be used also for safety car laps, technical problems, electrical problems, little crashes, tire puctures, etc etc.

[RZS10]

That's what they plan.

Exceptions for engine mapping are VSC, SC, lap to grid. post race, charge and cooldown laps in quali

And they can use a "safe" mode but have to inform the stewards - said safe mode has to have "significantly less power" and has to be used for the remainder of the session.

So if there's even the slightest hickup in the system which right now could easily be fixed with one of the "fail" modes or a reset will mean that the race will pretty much be over ... what a mess.

[henry]

Looking at the modes allowed I’m not clear about what this means for SOC management.

The laps on the starting grid
Laps behind the Safety Car or under VSC-Speed (virtual SafetyCar)
The lap of honour after the finish flag
Laps before and after a flying qualifying round
Any other round that is 20 percent above the fastest lap of each qualifying session

Crudely I view the current SOC situation as:

Q lap, begin at 4MJ end 0
Start and restart, Begin at 4MJ end 2
Race laps, Begin 2 end 2

I can’t see how these can be managed without Strategy mode intervention.

Maybe they have excluded Strategy modes from this and it only applies to ICE parameters. If so it’s to be hoped that the manufacturers have architected their systems to Separate the two Sets of behaviours.


I’m also puzzled by this item In the ICE control list.

Wastegate valve timing and MGU-H working time

I wonder if this only applies to MGU-H assist in e-supercharge? Whatever it is these represent, along with quite a lot of other parameters in the new lists, things that are not currently regulated or monitored by the FIA. Rather brings into question the avowed intention of reducing complexity. Instead of monitoring 5 things in the regs they now additionally have to monitor half a dozen, or more, that aren’t.

I wonder how many of these parameters are in adaptive loops?