Why Verstappen will NOT win in 2020

[Wass85]

@wass85

Going downhill is hardly the right phrase, He had the 1 bad year in 2011. I guess you are blaming Lewis for 09 then ? His title defence was Lewis being poor. Max came in to F1, did superb, got promoted (all 'on the up') Then was beaten 2yrs straight by Danny Ric ('downhill') So I guess they are pretty similar. Only difference at this stage is Lewis had a WDC to his name. It was also 2012 (The 6th year of Lewis) when he made his 2nd best decision in his life , by joining Mercedes. So what will Max do? he's currently stuck at RedBull because he chose to sign a long term deal.

BTW Lewis best ever decision was to approach Ron

I think it is the right phrase, harsh perhaps but on point IMO.

OK so you're going to count 2016 as a loss for Verstappen even when he was brand new to the team and outperformed Ricciardo frequently?

In 2017 Max never suffered from a lack of pace as far as I can remember?

I can forgive Hamilton for the crashes in 2011 but that loss of speed is inexcusable, especially when the car got even stronger at the back end of the season.

[Just_a_fan]

But instead of improving he went downhill for the next few seasons IMO.

Glad you added the IMO at the end there.

I think Max would do fine in a title battle if he gets the car, he will always have that blistering speed, the overtaking and defending prowess that is elite level.

His defending prowess is not elite level. Dangerously moving around in the braking zone is not "elite level", it's junior formula level. It's just a bully-boy tactic rather than skilled defending. It leads to others being wary. Now maybe some think that's ok, but many think it isn't. Sadly, the TPTB allowed him to get away with it and now we see others doing it - was it Grosjean who made this comment when questioned about his doing it at Silverstone?

At some point, it'll end up in an almighty big shunt.

There's no dismissing his speed, however. But he isn't yet the complete driver that some like to portray him.

[NathanOlder]

@ wass Lewis was the only driver to take a pole position in 2011 other than the RedBull drivers. Nothing wrong with his pace there. As for going to a new team, Lewis went to a new team in 2013 and beat his team mate.

[Wass85]

@ wass Lewis was the only driver to take a pole position in 2011 other than the RedBull drivers. Nothing wrong with his pace there. As for going to a new team, Lewis went to a new team in 2013 and beat his team mate.

One swallow does not make a summer.
Lewis was often slower than Button in race pace, especially at the back end of the season.

And nice swerve, Hamilton joined the team before testing started for the 2013 season. Max was put in the seat after the season had already started.

[Wass85]

But instead of improving he went downhill for the next few seasons IMO.

Glad you added the IMO at the end there.

I think Max would do fine in a title battle if he gets the car, he will always have that blistering speed, the overtaking and defending prowess that is elite level.

His defending prowess is not elite level. Dangerously moving around in the braking zone is not "elite level", it's junior formula level. It's just a bully-boy tactic rather than skilled defending. It leads to others being wary. Now maybe some think that's ok, but many think it isn't. Sadly, the TPTB allowed him to get away with it and now we see others doing it - was it Grosjean who made this comment when questioned about his doing it at Silverstone?

At some point, it'll end up in an almighty big shunt.

There's no dismissing his speed, however. But he isn't yet the complete driver that some like to portray him.

So elite level then.

If what he's doing is within the rules then how can that be a mark against him?

That's the scary thing, we haven't even seen the best of him yet.

For all we know his career might be a set of what if's. If Russell takes over from Hamilton and Mercedes stay in the sport and dominate, Verstappen could have a relatively empty trophy cabinet.

[Just_a_fan]

So elite level then.

No, not elite level. Crass rubbish that isn't punished is not "elite", it's crass rubbish.

When your fellow drivers say "it's dangerous", that's not being elite.

[Sieper]

A shunt like Albon in the gravel per Austria. Or brasil. And there we had to have a discussion as people were not even willing to accept any guild at all, even after steward verdict. Brasil it was Lewis himself who admitted his mistake (and still some people were defending him). Fine, if that is how we are going to argue then Lewis will always be infallible. That really happened while people here are fantasizing about a Verstappen defense. When is the last time you actually saw something by Max that was questionable let alone punished by stewards. And he did already have to put up some defensive driving this season. I am sorry but I get really triggered by this kind of imho unfair reasoning. I am not saying Max will never do something controversial again, he will, but can we agree please that this kind of thinking is just not very fair.

[Wouter]

So elite level then.

No, not elite level. Crass rubbish that isn't punished is not "elite", it's crass rubbish.

When your fellow drivers say "it's dangerous", that's not being elite.

When was the last time Max defended dangerous?

[Just_a_fan]

So elite level then.

No, not elite level. Crass rubbish that isn't punished is not "elite", it's crass rubbish.

When your fellow drivers say "it's dangerous", that's not being elite.

When was the last time Max defended dangerous?

Not sure he's had to do much defending recently, to be honest.

[Just_a_fan]

A shunt like Albon in the gravel per Austria. Or brasil. And there we had to have a discussion as people were not even willing to accept any guild at all, even after steward verdict. Brasil it was Lewis himself who admitted his mistake (and still some people were defending him).

Lewis accepted blame for the Brazil incident. I don't think Albon helped himself by taking a line that was so wide it looked like he was parking up, but Lewis held his hand up. Something others could do well to do when they make mistakes.

The Austria incident was a racing incident at worst, and only got a penalty because Albon spun in to the gravel. Often, those just end up with a wriggle from the car on the outside and everyone carries on. Albon took a line that placed himself at risk. As said, a racing incident, not a deliberate swerve to try to prevent an overtake.

[Wass85]

So elite level then.

No, not elite level. Crass rubbish that isn't punished is not "elite", it's crass rubbish.

When your fellow drivers say "it's dangerous", that's not being elite.

That's your opinion and you're entitled to it but you're wrong.

Max has never been punished for this "crass rubbish" and most drivers have now copied his tactics.

If that's not elite defending then I don't know what is.

[Wass85]

Max has looked the complete driver now for a couple of seasons, what else does he have to do?

Just give him the car and he is ready to take the title.

[Sieper]

No, not elite level. Crass rubbish that isn't punished is not "elite", it's crass rubbish.

When your fellow drivers say "it's dangerous", that's not being elite.

When was the last time Max defended dangerous?

Not sure he's had to do much defending recently, to be honest.

Bottas Austria was the most recent. Hamilton Hungary last year was also quite good.

[NathanOlder]

@ wass Lewis was the only driver to take a pole position in 2011 other than the RedBull drivers. Nothing wrong with his pace there. As for going to a new team, Lewis went to a new team in 2013 and beat his team mate.

One swallow does not make a summer.
Lewis was often slower than Button in race pace, especially at the back end of the season.

And nice swerve, Hamilton joined the team before testing started for the 2013 season. Max was put in the seat after the season had already started.

I can excuse him for losing in 2016 then, but that would have made him super prepared for 2017...... ooops

[NathanOlder]

Max has looked the complete driver now for a couple of seasons, what else does he have to do?

Just give him the car and he is ready to take the title.

This Lewis fan sure does love to put Lewis down and praise Max a hell of a lot.