[ 2020 ] Mclaren F1 Team - Renault

[CjC]

But he hoped Renault were using it if Merc were.

Joking aside I think Merc will either not be affected for customer teams, or it will be a benefit for engine life.

If Mercedes has the best “Qualy mode” and there is a ban, they will be affected more than others... Which doesn’t mean that they won’t have an stronger mode than everyone else still.

Now, if they elimination of the Qualy mode will free up additional power during the races, the change could end been positive for them, since their “normal mode” will probably be more powerful than the rest of engine manufacturers and therefore maintain their lead in both Qualy and the Race


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Thats what I was suggesting. Win for Mclaren either way

This would back those thoughts up

https://www.planetf1.com/news/mercedes- ... modes-ban/

‘5 laps less with quali mode in Q3 means 25 laps with more power during the races’

[godlameroso]

Trusting Toto at face value is...umm how can I put this delicately...Well he said he feared competition, while knowing what the gaps were. So yeah. It's almost like most F1 principals say things that are worth their weight in helium.

[diffuser]

If Mercedes has the best “Qualy mode” and there is a ban, they will be affected more than others... Which doesn’t mean that they won’t have an stronger mode than everyone else still.

Now, if they elimination of the Qualy mode will free up additional power during the races, the change could end been positive for them, since their “normal mode” will probably be more powerful than the rest of engine manufacturers and therefore maintain their lead in both Qualy and the Race


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Thats what I was suggesting. Win for Mclaren either way

This would back those thoughts up

https://www.planetf1.com/news/mercedes- ... modes-ban/

‘5 laps less with quali mode in Q3 means 25 laps with more power during the races’

it's only 2 laps in Quali mode. For Merc, the PM is turned down until Q3. The inlaps and outlaps the switch modes.

[diffuser]

I think that it is highly unlikely that not running 2 or 4 laps in quali mode will significantly change thier race mode. You cannot expect a PU to survive 300KM at a mode that's designed for 5KM(with 4 PU for 22 races you need to keep in mind 1800KM Race life + Quali + 3 Practises). It just can't. None of us even know if they can do two Quali mode laps back to back. Also now if something goes wrong, you can't switch to another mode to get you to the end of the race. Also they haven't talked about what happens when it rains. If they don't allow a rain mode...that might have concequences on how you set up the race mode.

I think there is a slim chance that they will say well we'll give you 110% of normal race mode but only press the throttle to 90% until you need it. I think it will make things alot closer. Closer for Merc means nothing but for Trace point VS McLaren, it might mean alot(1 tenth).

Anyways I've said it before I really don't think there is that much of a difference between the PUs. Even if you have more power doesn't mean your chassis or tires can handle the extra speed. You might in some circumstances but not in others.

[Big Tea]

I think that it is highly unlikely that not running 2 or 4 laps in quali mode will significantly change thier race mode. You're cannot expect a PU to survive 300KM at a mode that's designed for 5KM. It just can't. None of us even know if they can do two Quali mode laps back to back. Also now if something goes wrong, you can't switch to another mode to get you to the end of the race. Also they haven't talked about what happens when it rains. If they don't allow a rain mode...that might have concequences on how you set up the race mode.

I think there is a slim chance that they will say well we'll give you 110% of normal race mode but only press the throttle to 90% until you need it. I think it will make things alot closer. Closer for Merc means nothing but for Trace point VS McLaren, it might mean alot(1 tenth).

Anyways I've said it before I really don't think there is that much of a difference between the PUs. Even if you have more power doesn't mean you chassis or tires can handle the extra speed. You might in some circumstances but not in others.

But 100% can be a fraction higher than it is now. The hours of life (or what ever) is calculated at a rate, and 'super mode' is more destructive so the rate probably accounts for this. Without the minus points the norm (old 100%) can be higher

Like a runner doing a circuit with or without a hill. The distance is the same but one is easier on the lungs and he can go slightly quicker all the way around because he did not have to keep some in hand for the hill.

[mwillems]

I think that it is highly unlikely that not running 2 or 4 laps in quali mode will significantly change thier race mode. You cannot expect a PU to survive 300KM at a mode that's designed for 5KM(with 4 PU for 22 races you need to keep in mind 1800KM Race life + Quali + 3 Practises). It just can't. None of us even know if they can do two Quali mode laps back to back. Also now if something goes wrong, you can't switch to another mode to get you to the end of the race. Also they haven't talked about what happens when it rains. If they don't allow a rain mode...that might have concequences on how you set up the race mode.

I think there is a slim chance that they will say well we'll give you 110% of normal race mode but only press the throttle to 90% until you need it. I think it will make things alot closer. Closer for Merc means nothing but for Trace point VS McLaren, it might mean alot(1 tenth).

Anyways I've said it before I really don't think there is that much of a difference between the PUs. Even if you have more power doesn't mean your chassis or tires can handle the extra speed. You might in some circumstances but not in others.

I can just imagine the drivers over using that throttle, like Bottas and Hamilton not listening to the team when they said the kerbs in Austria were causing the car to fall apart.

I dont see this new ruling harming Mclsren, I guess its just a question of how much benefit they may get, if any in the end.

About your comment of the PUs being close, is that just in pure HP? I think I recall that last year there were suggestions that the manner of or amount of electrical deployment of the Renault was behind Merc.

Whilst peak power might be similar, is the length of time that peak power is available also close?

[M840TR]

Thats what I was suggesting. Win for Mclaren either way

This would back those thoughts up

https://www.planetf1.com/news/mercedes- ... modes-ban/

‘5 laps less with quali mode in Q3 means 25 laps with more power during the races’

it's only 2 laps in Quali mode. For Merc, the PM is turned down until Q3. The inlaps and outlaps the switch modes.

4 laps. 2 in Q2 and 2 in Q3.

[diffuser]

I think that it is highly unlikely that not running 2 or 4 laps in quali mode will significantly change thier race mode. You cannot expect a PU to survive 300KM at a mode that's designed for 5KM(with 4 PU for 22 races you need to keep in mind 1800KM Race life + Quali + 3 Practises). It just can't. None of us even know if they can do two Quali mode laps back to back. Also now if something goes wrong, you can't switch to another mode to get you to the end of the race. Also they haven't talked about what happens when it rains. If they don't allow a rain mode...that might have concequences on how you set up the race mode.

I think there is a slim chance that they will say well we'll give you 110% of normal race mode but only press the throttle to 90% until you need it. I think it will make things alot closer. Closer for Merc means nothing but for Trace point VS McLaren, it might mean alot(1 tenth).

Anyways I've said it before I really don't think there is that much of a difference between the PUs. Even if you have more power doesn't mean your chassis or tires can handle the extra speed. You might in some circumstances but not in others.

I can just imagine the drivers over using that throttle, like Bottas and Hamilton not listening to the team when they said the kerbs in Austria were causing the car to fall apart.

I dont see this new ruling harming Mclsren, I guess its just a question of how much benefit they may get, if any in the end.

About your comment of the PUs being close, is that just in pure HP? I think I recall that last year there were suggestions that the manner of or amount of electrical deployment of the Renault was behind Merc.

Whilst peak power might be similar, is the length of time that peak power is available also close?

The word is the mgu-h was better for Merc and Honda. I watched Honda Vs Renault very closely at a couple of tracks last year. Notably Japan and saw they deployed at different places. So the flashing light comes on a different places for all 4 teams. So unless they tell us how much deployment time they have over a lap, it is very difficult to tell.

[ALO_Power]

If Mercedes has the best “Qualy mode” and there is a ban, they will be affected more than others... Which doesn’t mean that they won’t have an stronger mode than everyone else still.

Now, if they elimination of the Qualy mode will free up additional power during the races, the change could end been positive for them, since their “normal mode” will probably be more powerful than the rest of engine manufacturers and therefore maintain their lead in both Qualy and the Race


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Thats what I was suggesting. Win for Mclaren either way

This would back those thoughts up

https://www.planetf1.com/news/mercedes- ... modes-ban/

‘5 laps less with quali mode in Q3 means 25 laps with more power during the races’

If this change would favor Mercedes further then simply he wouldn't complain about it and wouldn't get his drivers to make statements that "this is aimed to us to slow us down!", so take what they say with a grain of salt.

[PhillipM]

Of course you would, then you can PR spin it when you're even faster into "Even when they slow us down, we worked extra hard and showed the engineering might of Mercedes and the team by clawing all the loses back"
People forget F1 is entirely about advertising.

[mwillems]

I think that it is highly unlikely that not running 2 or 4 laps in quali mode will significantly change thier race mode. You cannot expect a PU to survive 300KM at a mode that's designed for 5KM(with 4 PU for 22 races you need to keep in mind 1800KM Race life + Quali + 3 Practises). It just can't. None of us even know if they can do two Quali mode laps back to back. Also now if something goes wrong, you can't switch to another mode to get you to the end of the race. Also they haven't talked about what happens when it rains. If they don't allow a rain mode...that might have concequences on how you set up the race mode.

I think there is a slim chance that they will say well we'll give you 110% of normal race mode but only press the throttle to 90% until you need it. I think it will make things alot closer. Closer for Merc means nothing but for Trace point VS McLaren, it might mean alot(1 tenth).

Anyways I've said it before I really don't think there is that much of a difference between the PUs. Even if you have more power doesn't mean your chassis or tires can handle the extra speed. You might in some circumstances but not in others.

I can just imagine the drivers over using that throttle, like Bottas and Hamilton not listening to the team when they said the kerbs in Austria were causing the car to fall apart.

I dont see this new ruling harming Mclsren, I guess its just a question of how much benefit they may get, if any in the end.

About your comment of the PUs being close, is that just in pure HP? I think I recall that last year there were suggestions that the manner of or amount of electrical deployment of the Renault was behind Merc.

Whilst peak power might be similar, is the length of time that peak power is available also close?

The word is the mgu-h was better for Merc and Honda. I watched Honda Vs Renault very closely at a couple of tracks last year. Notably Japan and saw they deployed at different places. So the flashing light comes on a different places for all 4 teams. So unless they tell us how much deployment time they have over a lap, it is very difficult to tell.

Thats the conversation I recall, it was the final sector that folks were noticing the lights coming on earlier for renault than anyone else. That's the main reason I feel the Merc engine may offer a better race package than the Renault, despite peak power being similar.

We will see next year, I dont think Mclaren will hold off on the comparisons for too long.

[McFAN]

From Racefans.net.

Speaking after Sunday’s race, Seidl said he was pleased with the improvements McLaren have made to their pit stop routines:
" It was important simply, like we always have done, to analyse in detail after each each weekend what went wrong together with the team. We had issues so far this year. We were not always spot-on on the execution side, but also we had issues with the equipment. And that’s something that takes time to build up again.

We were quick last year, but we were not robust enough. We made good changes on the equipment side over winter in order to help the crew to make sure we don’t have these catastrophic pit stops but somehow lost the speed and the consistency, as you have seen in previous races.

We go into a lot of details when we do the analysis together with the guys to see also where we can help them. We did that after the last race at Silverstone and it was good to see actually [in Spain] that all the hard work the guys were putting in was paying off.

At the same time, there’s no reason to get carried away with that. We know we are not as consistent as we would like to be and as quick as we want to be. But it was a definitely good step. "

[Jackles-UK]

Does anyone know what part of the PU provides the most extra power when in the quali modes? As in, is it the turbo that spins up faster or the ICE that runs at a higher RPM or the batteries sending more electrical energy to the drivetrain or whatever? Obviously I assume it will be a combination of all of the above but I’d be curious to know which is the major factor and whether this changes across manufacturers. If, for example, the Renault PU gains its extra power from a different element to the Mercedes PU when put into quali mode, could it be feasible that this ban might actually mean a net gain for Mercedes against their rivals?

[Tommy Cookers]

.... what part of the PU provides the most extra power when in the quali modes?

the wastegate .....
(arguably)

[SmallSoldier]

Does anyone know what part of the PU provides the most extra power when in the quali modes? As in, is it the turbo that spins up faster or the ICE that runs at a higher RPM or the batteries sending more electrical energy to the drivetrain or whatever? Obviously I assume it will be a combination of all of the above but I’d be curious to know which is the major factor and whether this changes across manufacturers. If, for example, the Renault PU gains its extra power from a different element to the Mercedes PU when put into quali mode, could it be feasible that this ban might actually mean a net gain for Mercedes against their rivals?

That’s a very good question and I’m intrigued about it too... I do believe that different PU manufacturers will be using all of the methods above to achieve maximum output during the qualifying lap, but of course some will probably give more weight to one of the factors more than the others based on their architecture... Even the fuels will play a role since some may allow to run a bit leaner than others.

I’m afraid that no one would really know exactly what the rest are doing, since it would then be easier to replicate.


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