Will Schumacher's Race Win and WDC records be broken?

[PlatinumZealot]

Let us play a game. Let us set a new target number of wins record for Lewis Hamilton to break, for those that believe the number of races per season has helped Lewis.

I will even not consider Schmacher's return to the sport in this game.

Scumacher 1991 to 2006 : 16 seasons 250 races. 91 wins.
Average races per season 15.625.

Hamilton 2007 to 2020 barcelona: 14 seasons, 88 wins, 241 race starts.

Average races per season (to barcelona 2020) 17.21.

Now we extends schumacher's winning by the same rate times the factor of addition racesbper season that Hamilton enjoyed to get the "Real number of wins" Hamilton needs to beat. This allows SCHU to win more races while he was younger.

91wins x 17.21/15.65 = 100.25 wins in 16 seasons.

This means Lewis Hamilton has to get 101 wins in 16 seasons to be the undisputed Title holder of most wins.

Keep in mind that Lewis has not gotten the benefit of contractural number 2 drivers!

We can appease the Lewis Fans by taking a fraction of wins won by Lewis' teammates and assigning them to Lewis. This fraction can be determined by operating the fraction of wins won by MSC's teammates to what was won by MSC. Agreed? Will do this is another post. If someone can do it for me no problem

[Manoah2u]

Well, i vastly disagree on Hamilton not having a number two driver. Bottas has been a clearly purpose shaped number two driver from the moment he stepped into a Williams seat, and got a Merc seat to be Hammy's lapdog after the Rosberg saga. Sure - Alonso, Rosberg and Button clearly never were number 2 drivers. But Kovalainen? Hamilton had his fair share too.
Yes, Schumacher had his lap dogs. But so did Hamilton.

[PlatinumZealot]

Bottas has the speed challenge Hamilton for pole position on a regular basis and is allowed to fight him for wins on equal terms, with equal equipment and fair strategies. Not even close to being a number 2.
Then we have Rosberg... If Mercedes had given Hamilton number 1 they would have dropped Rosberg and brought in a number 2 driver maybe Nick Heidfeld. All those wins that Rosberg got would have likely gone to Lewis alone and the numbers would be astronomical. A situation like this is what Michael enjoyed for maybe ten years(?) that Lewis has not.

[Wass85]

Bottas has the speed challenge Hamilton for pole position on a regular basis and is allowed to fight him for wins on equal terms, with equal equipment and fair strategies. Not even close to being a number 2.
Then we have Rosberg... If Mercedes had given Hamilton number 1 they would have dropped Rosberg and brought in a number 2 driver maybe Nick Heidfeld. All those wins that Rosberg got would have likely gone to Lewis alone and the numbers would be astronomical. A situation like this is what Michael enjoyed for maybe ten years(?) that Lewis has not.

But the thing is how many wins would Irvine and Barrichello actually tally up anyway if Ferrari did all that? Honestly they weren't even in the man's timezone.

[Moore77]

Bottas has the speed challenge Hamilton for pole position on a regular basis and is allowed to fight him for wins on equal terms, with equal equipment and fair strategies. Not even close to being a number 2.
Then we have Rosberg... If Mercedes had given Hamilton number 1 they would have dropped Rosberg and brought in a number 2 driver maybe Nick Heidfeld. All those wins that Rosberg got would have likely gone to Lewis alone and the numbers would be astronomical. A situation like this is what Michael enjoyed for maybe ten years(?) that Lewis has not.

Bottas was asked by Mercedes to move aside and let Hamilton win in Russia 2018. On many occasions he was asked not to challenge Hamilton, like in Germany 2018. He has been used many times in 2017 (Spain comes to mind) and 2018 (Monza comes to mind) to hold up Ferrari, to allow Hamilton to build/close gaps. They asked Rosberg to let Hamilton go and win in Monaco 2016. Why are you then talking Bottas and Rosberg up? How different were they than Barrichello and Irvine?

[dans79]

Bottas has the speed challenge Hamilton for pole position on a regular basis and is allowed to fight him for wins on equal terms, with equal equipment and fair strategies. Not even close to being a number 2.
Then we have Rosberg... If Mercedes had given Hamilton number 1 they would have dropped Rosberg and brought in a number 2 driver maybe Nick Heidfeld. All those wins that Rosberg got would have likely gone to Lewis alone and the numbers would be astronomical. A situation like this is what Michael enjoyed for maybe ten years(?) that Lewis has not.

Bottas was asked by Mercedes to move aside and let Hamilton win in Russia 2018. On many occasions he was asked not to challenge Hamilton, like in Germany 2018. He has been used many times in 2017 (Spain comes to mind) and 2018 (Monza comes to mind) to hold up Ferrari, to allow Hamilton to build/close gaps. They asked Rosberg to let Hamilton go and win in Monaco 2016. Why are you then talking Bottas and Rosberg up? How different were they than Barrichello and Irvine?

There is a big difference between being asked to help your teammate because you have effectively been eliminated from the fight, and being told to help your teammate before the very first race.

in 2016 they asked Rosberg to Let Lewis by, because was having a very hard time dealing with the track conditions. He finished 7th for a reason, and it wasn't because he let Lewis by.

https://web.archive.org/web/20160603152 ... grand-prix

Rosberg, asked if it was a painful decision to give way to his only serious title rival, said: “It was more painful the feeling that I had in the car. That was the worst. Around Monaco, that’s not a nice feeling to have. I had no confidence at all. The second thing [team order] was just a consequence of that.”

In spain 2017 Bottas was behind Lewis in the WDC, in qualifying, and had a damaged car from a first lap accident.

Going into Germany 2018 Bottas was sitting 5th in WDC, 59 points behind Lewis. He was out of the championship, hence why he was asked to support his teammate.

Going into Monza 2018 Bottas was sitting 4th in WDC, 87 points behind Lewis. He was out of the championship, hence why he was asked to support his teammate.

Going into Russia 2018 Bottas was sitting 4th in WDC, 110 points behind Lewis. He was out of the championship, hence why he was asked to support his teammate.

[e30ernest]

Yeah I don't think you can compare the (#2) teammates of Schumacher to Hamilton's teammates. Also noting there was a race where Hamilton was allowed to pass Bottas to attempt to give the team a better overall result, but had to give the place back to Bottas if he didn't pass the guy in front.

[Moore77]

Bottas has the speed challenge Hamilton for pole position on a regular basis and is allowed to fight him for wins on equal terms, with equal equipment and fair strategies. Not even close to being a number 2.
Then we have Rosberg... If Mercedes had given Hamilton number 1 they would have dropped Rosberg and brought in a number 2 driver maybe Nick Heidfeld. All those wins that Rosberg got would have likely gone to Lewis alone and the numbers would be astronomical. A situation like this is what Michael enjoyed for maybe ten years(?) that Lewis has not.

Bottas was asked by Mercedes to move aside and let Hamilton win in Russia 2018. On many occasions he was asked not to challenge Hamilton, like in Germany 2018. He has been used many times in 2017 (Spain comes to mind) and 2018 (Monza comes to mind) to hold up Ferrari, to allow Hamilton to build/close gaps. They asked Rosberg to let Hamilton go and win in Monaco 2016. Why are you then talking Bottas and Rosberg up? How different were they than Barrichello and Irvine?

There is a big difference between being asked to help your teammate because you have effectively been eliminated from the fight, and being told to help your teammate before the very first race.

in 2016 they asked Rosberg to Let Lewis by, because was having a very hard time dealing with the track conditions. He finished 7th for a reason, and it wasn't because he let Lewis by.

https://web.archive.org/web/20160603152 ... grand-prix

Rosberg, asked if it was a painful decision to give way to his only serious title rival, said: “It was more painful the feeling that I had in the car. That was the worst. Around Monaco, that’s not a nice feeling to have. I had no confidence at all. The second thing [team order] was just a consequence of that.”

In spain 2017 Bottas was behind Lewis in the WDC, in qualifying, and had a damaged car from a first lap accident.

Going into Germany 2018 Bottas was sitting 5th in WDC, 59 points behind Lewis. He was out of the championship, hence why he was asked to support his teammate.

Going into Monza 2018 Bottas was sitting 4th in WDC, 87 points behind Lewis. He was out of the championship, hence why he was asked to support his teammate.

Going into Russia 2018 Bottas was sitting 4th in WDC, 110 points behind Lewis. He was out of the championship, hence why he was asked to support his teammate.

You can find hundred ways to justify what happened there and it doesn't change a thing that, Bottas and Rosberg were lapdogs for a great driver, except Rosberg was lucky to scrap a championship as the other cars were were miles behind. I still remember Malaysia 2013, when Brawn issued team orders in favor of Hamilton. It was always clear as who was No. 1 and who is No. 2.

[Edit]If someone doesn't agree to your own concocted views, then down vote. Great.

[El Scorchio]

If Bottas isn’t a number 2 driver then why is he allowed to win races where Hamilton finishes second? Why didn’t he let him past in Austria #1 this season so Hamilton could maximise points?

Why did they allow Rosberg to win a WDC when they could easily have engineered it so Hamilton wins the title in 2016? If there was anything at all contractual then Hamilton would have pulled rank.

I’m sure the thought of Hamilton having #2 drivers gives people comfort as they really don’t want him to be compared favourably to Schumacher, but it’s simply not true at all. He’s never had anything like the preferential treatment Schumacher had from any team.

[tangodjango]

Bottas was asked by Mercedes to move aside and let Hamilton win in Russia 2018. On many occasions he was asked not to challenge Hamilton, like in Germany 2018. He has been used many times in 2017 (Spain comes to mind) and 2018 (Monza comes to mind) to hold up Ferrari, to allow Hamilton to build/close gaps. They asked Rosberg to let Hamilton go and win in Monaco 2016. Why are you then talking Bottas and Rosberg up? How different were they than Barrichello and Irvine?

There is a big difference between being asked to help your teammate because you have effectively been eliminated from the fight, and being told to help your teammate before the very first race.

in 2016 they asked Rosberg to Let Lewis by, because was having a very hard time dealing with the track conditions. He finished 7th for a reason, and it wasn't because he let Lewis by.

https://web.archive.org/web/20160603152 ... grand-prix

Rosberg, asked if it was a painful decision to give way to his only serious title rival, said: “It was more painful the feeling that I had in the car. That was the worst. Around Monaco, that’s not a nice feeling to have. I had no confidence at all. The second thing [team order] was just a consequence of that.”

In spain 2017 Bottas was behind Lewis in the WDC, in qualifying, and had a damaged car from a first lap accident.

Going into Germany 2018 Bottas was sitting 5th in WDC, 59 points behind Lewis. He was out of the championship, hence why he was asked to support his teammate.

Going into Monza 2018 Bottas was sitting 4th in WDC, 87 points behind Lewis. He was out of the championship, hence why he was asked to support his teammate.

Going into Russia 2018 Bottas was sitting 4th in WDC, 110 points behind Lewis. He was out of the championship, hence why he was asked to support his teammate.

You can find hundred ways to justify what happened there and it doesn't change a thing that, Bottas and Rosberg were lapdogs for a great driver, except Rosberg was lucky to scrap a championship as the other cars were were miles behind. I still remember Malaysia 2013, when Brawn issued team orders in favor of Hamilton. It was always clear as who was No. 1 and who is No. 2.

[Edit]If someone doesn't agree to your own concocted views, then down vote. Great.

The irony of claiming other's views are concocted when relentlessly spewing trash oneself!

[Moore77]

There is a big difference between being asked to help your teammate because you have effectively been eliminated from the fight, and being told to help your teammate before the very first race.

in 2016 they asked Rosberg to Let Lewis by, because was having a very hard time dealing with the track conditions. He finished 7th for a reason, and it wasn't because he let Lewis by.

https://web.archive.org/web/20160603152 ... grand-prix


In spain 2017 Bottas was behind Lewis in the WDC, in qualifying, and had a damaged car from a first lap accident.

Going into Germany 2018 Bottas was sitting 5th in WDC, 59 points behind Lewis. He was out of the championship, hence why he was asked to support his teammate.

Going into Monza 2018 Bottas was sitting 4th in WDC, 87 points behind Lewis. He was out of the championship, hence why he was asked to support his teammate.

Going into Russia 2018 Bottas was sitting 4th in WDC, 110 points behind Lewis. He was out of the championship, hence why he was asked to support his teammate.

You can find hundred ways to justify what happened there and it doesn't change a thing that, Bottas and Rosberg were lapdogs for a great driver, except Rosberg was lucky to scrap a championship as the other cars were were miles behind. I still remember Malaysia 2013, when Brawn issued team orders in favor of Hamilton. It was always clear as who was No. 1 and who is No. 2.

[Edit]If someone doesn't agree to your own concocted views, then down vote. Great.

The irony of claiming other's views are concocted when relentlessly spewing trash oneself!

That's the thing here. Everyone thinks they are right and churning out some kind of Phd thesis here and others are putting trash. The feeling is mutual, always. I reciprocate your statement. You are welcome.

[Wass85]

The thing is Rosberg was that close to Hamilton in all parameters that Mercedes would have had to actively sabotage him to make him a Barrichello or Irvine.

Those two were nowhere near Schumacher over the course of a season, it made sense to make them clear number two drivers.

Does anyone honestly think if they were just as good Ferrari sabotage them to support Schumacher?

[Wynters]

Well, i vastly disagree on Hamilton not having a number two driver. Bottas has been a clearly purpose shaped number two driver from the moment he stepped into a Williams seat, and got a Merc seat to be Hammy's lapdog after the Rosberg saga. Sure - Alonso, Rosberg and Button clearly never were number 2 drivers. But Kovalainen? Hamilton had his fair share too.
Yes, Schumacher had his lap dogs. But so did Hamilton.

How long was Kovalainen at McLaren? A driver who was very highly rated before he stepped up to a big team, as I'm sure you recall.

Who replaced him? Another number 2?

If your defintion of a 'number 2 driver' is 'non-World Driver Championship driver' then shall we count up other people's 'fair share'?
Hamilton has had 2 in thirteen years.
Schumacher had 9 in fifteen years (his only WDC team mate was there for part of one year only).
Vettel had 7 in fourteen years.
Verstappen has had 6 in six years.

There's an odd one out in this pattern, I just can't quite put my finger on who...

You can find hundred ways to justify what happened there and it doesn't change a thing that,

Context is important, is it not? For instance, I remember watching Irvine beating Schumacher in Monaco, 1998. It was then that I knew Schumacher was the number 2 in the Ferrari team. It was always clear. Same with Barrichello in Spain, in 2000. Just more confirmation of Schumacher's lapdog status. Sure, Schumacher managed to scrape a few lucky World Driver Championship wins when at Ferrari, but...

Bottas and Rosberg were lapdogs for a great driver, except Rosberg was lucky to scrap a championship as the other cars were were miles behind.

I don't recall 'number 2 drivers' being allowed to win championships? It rather defeats the point of having a number 2 if they are allowed to win the season over the number 1, does it not?

I still remember Malaysia 2013, when Brawn issued team orders in favor of Hamilton. It was always clear as who was No. 1 and who is No. 2.

To be clear, one race that was their best chance of a good result at that time, not only trumps the two wins later in that season that Rosberg had, but also the WDCs that went down to the wire, the clear bad blood between Rosberg and Hamilton (why be angry at someone you can just order moved out of the way?), and the WDC that Rosberg won?

Or, by 'Number 2' do we actually mean 'worse driver than'? In which case, I've got awful news for people about all of Hamilton's team mates (real or potential)...

[dans79]

You can find hundred ways to justify what happened there and it doesn't change a thing that, Bottas and Rosberg were lapdogs for a great driver, except Rosberg was lucky to scrap a championship as the other cars were were miles behind. I still remember Malaysia 2013, when Brawn issued team orders in favor of Hamilton. It was always clear as who was No. 1 and who is No. 2.

Do you know how an f1 team works?

[PlatinumZealot]

The thing is Rosberg was that close to Hamilton in all parameters that Mercedes would have had to actively sabotage him to make him a Barrichello or Irvine.

Those two were nowhere near Schumacher over the course of a season, it made sense to make them clear number two drivers.

Does anyone honestly think if they were just as good Ferrari sabotage them to support Schumacher?

That is why I said, if they wanted Hamilton a Number 1 they would have let Rosberg go and brought in Nick Heidfeld. But, that is not the case at Mercedes, the drivers are given equal status. Bottas is allowed to take wins from Hamilton - Monza 2019 Hamilton was asked to let Bottas by to challenge Lecerc.

Credence should not be given to the ridiculous theory that Hamilton had contractual number 2 teammates because that was clearly not the case. That is a negative mark on Michael's legacy and it is what it is, no shame in it.