FIA wants to ban qualifying modes in 2021

[dans79]

Might actually start seeing engines fail spectacularly like in the good ole days.

IMO, thats unlikely, The inside of an f1 cockpit would end up just like a modern fighter jets cockpit, Full of screens and gauges for monitoring and alerting the pilot of issues. We'd probably see a push for HUDs as well.

[El Scorchio]

In this case I understand it will help and defend Mercedes PU supremacy, like the token-based development system

I think that's the effect it may well have, but I don't think that's the intention at all. I really hate the idea of (all) the teams not being able to run their technology at it's possible limits. It's a crying shame.
In addition all supplied teams of a manufacturer only being allowed to run one standard single PU setting? That's a load of old cobblers too. At least let each team choose what's best for their own car relative to how it was designed. Do we really think Ferrari, Honda and Mercedes are going to cater to Haas, AT or Williams? I fear all it's going to do is widen the gap to all the customer teams who simply won't be able to set things up with the freedom they probably need.

All power unit’s hardware and software supplied to customer teams must (and they are) be the same as that used by a manufacturer.

Yes. As I said above. And the manufacturers are hardly going to put the needs of a customer team before the works one are they? So that clause is probably bad news for all but four teams and anyone hoping for more parity.

[saviour stivala]

‘’If you hear some technical-sounding instructions over the team radio, it might well be the power unit mode being changed. The driver will then change the mode through the switches on their steering wheel’’.
That is one blatant breach of the sporting regulations (The driver must drive the car alone and unaided) that the FIA will eliminate.

That was overturned after 2015(?) because they say the Power units are so complex the drivers could destroy them in the wrong mode or something like that.

Yet. Five years later the FIA wrote to the teams. ‘’The multitude and complexity of the power unit modes being used makes it necessary that the driver is instructed (in some cases)_what mode he should use by his pit-wall, such instructions to the driver are contrary to ‘the driver should drive the car alone and unaided’. Article 27.1 of sporting regulations.

[henry]

Might actually start seeing engines fail spectacularly like in the good ole days.

IMO, thats unlikely, The inside of an f1 cockpit would end up just like a modern fighter jets cockpit, Full of screens and gauges for monitoring and alerting the pilot of issues. We'd probably see a push for HUDs as well.

Absolutely agree. And like modern aircraft there’ll be more and more onboard software attempting to replicate the monitoring and judgement of the guys looking at the screens in the pits and factories.

Above all F1 is an engineering discipline. I can’t recall exactly but I think there have only been a couple of occasions since 1970 where the WDC has not driven the WCC car. If they want it to be about the drivers then they’ll have to manage it like the W series.

Edit: I should have said engineering team discipline. The driver is just a member of the team.

[saviour stivala]

No matter the amount of software, as no software is allowed to monitor and replicate the judgement of those on the pit-wall or factory monitoring the goings-on. They can monitor to their heart contents. But telemetry is only permitted one way.

[henry]

No matter the amount of software, as no software is allowed to monitor and replicate the judgement of those on the pit-wall or factory monitoring the goings-on. They can monitor to their heart contents. But telemetry is only permitted one way.

I’m suggesting a computer in the car monitoring the data that is currently sent to the pit wall. No need for telemetry.

[saviour stivala]

No software is allowed to replicate the judgement of those on the pit-wall or factory monitoring the car data.

[subcritical71]

such instructions to the driver are contrary to ‘the driver should drive the car alone and unaided’. Article 27.1 of sporting regulations.

The problem is that rule is too vague and unenforceable in today’s environment. Look at track limits where the drivers are told ahead of time which turns are allowed to be cut. What does unaided truly mean? No feedback from pit? What about any feedback from the pit signs, or even the track marshaling system? Would a wind sock set up on turn 3, for instance, be a driver aid? I’m just playing devils advocate. The only way to ban ‘unaided’ is to remove those things completely which contribute to the violation. MotoGP for instance does not have radio comms with the pilot, is that the way forward? What about comms only for driver to pit? Without comms from the pit there can be no coaching, and you can have all the telemetry you want and what are you going to do with it... maybe use the pit board to signal the driver to stop or retire the car.

I agree with henry though. Getting rid of pit feedback for PU operation would just increase the need for onboard computing to take the place of the pit. That would be a true engineering exercise to get all failure modes and how to survive them implemented in software. I wouldn’t mind this so much actually as cars you and I can drive are already heading down that road.

[El Scorchio]

such instructions to the driver are contrary to ‘the driver should drive the car alone and unaided’. Article 27.1 of sporting regulations.

The problem is that rule is too vague and unenforceable in today’s environment. Look at track limits where the drivers are told ahead of time which turns are allowed to be cut. What does unaided truly mean? No feedback from pit? What about any feedback from the pit signs, or even the track marshaling system? Would a wind sock set up on turn 3, for instance, be a driver aid? I’m just playing devils advocate. The only way to ban ‘unaided’ is to remove those things completely which contribute to the violation. MotoGP for instance does not have radio comms with the pilot, is that the way forward? What about comms only for driver to pit? Without comms from the pit there can be no coaching, and you can have all the telemetry you want and what are you going to do with it... maybe use the pit board to signal the driver to stop or retire the car.

I agree with henry though. Getting rid of pit feedback for PU operation would just increase the need for onboard computing to take the place of the pit. That would be a true engineering exercise to get all failure modes and how to survive them implemented in software. I wouldn’t mind this so much actually as cars you and I can drive are already heading down that road.

I think the cars have become too complex for a driver to fully manage them while still driving as fast as they can. Not sure it's feasible to leave it all up to them and try and get them to remember what buttons and dials to use in any given situation, which also creates more risk of accidents if they are concentrating and thinking about the steering wheel rather than whats going on around them. You cannot do both at the same time.

IMO, either leave as is but accept it's a team effort and the driver will perform better with help, and allow radio communications about car status/safety/tyre related things only (none of this 'take x corner in x gear' bullshit in anything other than practice sessions- where you SHOULD be bouncing ideas around.) Either that or just remove a load of it from the driver's control, have far more basic settings and let them get on with it, even if it leads to more reliability problems and squashes the concept of pushing the limits of technology and progress and ultimate outright speed/lap time.

[Big Tea]

A F1 version of a WepO on board They could close the cockpit in then too. Very sci-fi

[subcritical71]

Wasn’t it Norris that told CodeMasters that the F1 2019 game was too complicated on its strategy simulation and that is not realistic. They simplified the modes for F1 2020 because of this feedback. So it’s either complex (when asking an engineer) or easy (when asking a driver), or maybe it depends on what agenda the interviewee has.

[Wass85]

I hate all the switches and buttons, drivers should only be equipped with 2 pedals, two flappy paddles and a drink dispenser.

[hUirEYExbN]

I hate all the switches and buttons, drivers should only be equipped with 2 pedals, two flappy paddles and a drink dispenser.

What, no steering wheel?

[bosyber]

Wasn’t it Norris that told CodeMasters that the F1 2019 game was too complicated on its strategy simulation and that is not realistic. They simplified the modes for F1 2020 because of this feedback. So it’s either complex (when asking an engineer) or easy (when asking a driver), or maybe it depends on what agenda the interviewee has.

I would guess that it's complicated as an engineer to find the very best combination of when to use what during a lap, depending on circumstance and opportunity, because there are so many variables that finding the very best choice is hard. But once that's done, maybe it is usually quite simple for the driver on track, since all that work has been done to give them a few options to tune the pre-determined plan/set-up, because there are not all that many variations that then deliver anything extra.

Now, in a game, where the players is to some extent playing both the role of the team/engineer and of the driver maybe there is room for more flexibility because chances are you were not quite able to make as informed a choice as the F1 teams can do with 10s of engineers to comb through the data. Alternatively, if the game just optimizes the choices (ie. leaves less room for bad choices), then it could also reduce the complexity, though at the cost of not giving someone room to play and possibly find a setting that seems suboptimal but works perfectly in a specific scenario.

Anyway, I don't really mind the FIA reducing the options, which would probably mean shifting that engineering work more towards pre-race preparation and away from the weekend so that they show up with the best modes for a PU they can think of, but I do still wonder at the moment, and also whether the FIA makes the best choices there, because clearly they don't quite have the best grasp on what these PU's are doing and capable of in reality.

[MtthsMlw]

From an interview with Remi Taffin (Renault PU chief engineer).

If you say the easiest thing to do is to take the current race mode: But now there is not only a qualifying and a race mode. There are many modes for the race alone ...
Remi Taffin: Yes, there are. But the FIA is very clear about what they want from us now. It is a single mode. Whatever the number looked like before: There will only be one now.

How many were there before just for the race?
Remi Taffin: It is a combination, because it is a matrix. You can change more than just one parameter. If you say you have four or five possibilities with one parameter, then you might end up with 20 modes. That's the point the FIA made: they have problems monitoring things because there are so many variables that they asked us to help them. That's fair and that's what we try to do. We as Renault are trying to help the FIA monitor that. We want fairness for everyone.

Is it not difficult to draw a line? What is combustion engine, what is not? Turbocharger and MGU-H influence each other ...
Remi Taffin: What is clear is the turbocharger. It is part of the combustion engine. The MGU-H is at its limit. You are right, the MGU-H has consequences for the turbocharger. But this problem cannot be solved. There are parameters that have an influence on the combustion engine. There will always be a connection between the combustion engine and the energy recovery systems. The MGU-H is also there to regulate the boost pressure and to recuperate energy at the same time. We have to come back to what the FIA is trying to do: Minimize the variables they have to look at. They certainly won't freeze everything in one day, but they limit what they have to look at.

In addition to the emergency mode, there should still be an overrun button. Which parameters may it influence? Is it only about the electrical energy flow or also about the combustion engine?
Remi Taffin: It's mainly about the electrical energy. But as a side effect, the FIA has given us the option of using the waste gate valve. If you activate the overtaking mode, you get rid of any K-clipping (suspension of the MGU-K) you might have and at the same time it might allow you to have a different opening position of the wastegate valves to use more energy.

How long and how often can I use the button?
Remi Taffin: There is no limit.

Can't you transfer your qualifying advantage to the race?
Remi Taffin: You will take a part of it with you. But you can't go from one day to the other 60 laps of qualifying if you could only do three or four laps in qualifying before. We know how it works. I'm pretty sure that - if Mercedes had a qualifying mode that they can't use now - they will work very hard to use it in qualifying and in the race.

https://www.motorsport-magazin.com/form ... ln-verbot/