[ 2020 ] Mclaren F1 Team - Renault

[FittingMechanics]

Here is the problem with that plan: I think in that scenario Mercedes will chose to have RP as the factory team instead.

Stroll is best buddies with Toto, Toto has money in AM, and from what I understand so does Mercedes.

Why would Mercedes pick McLaren rather than RP?

Several possible reasons:
- If McLaren is faster than Racing Point, it makes sense
- Racing Point hasn't proved it can design a front running car, McLaren hasn't done so recently but is on a good trajectory
- McLaren has great financial backing and supercar division which will ensure it remains in F1

Now, we must not forget that if Mercedes pulls out, they will do so by selling the chassis factory. This new team is logical successor as factory team, but it is highly speculative if the team will remain a front runner.

All in all, I agree that McLaren was probably positioning itself to profit from potential Mercedes pull out from F1, but they probably do not have any type of guarantee they will inherit the works status, that is to be earner and whoever is the fastest when that happens, will inherit it by default. Ofcourse, alongside this there is a normal benefit that Mercedes is probably the best engine and that McLaren will be able to directly compare performance against the constructors champions.

[FittingMechanics]

In the pre race video on Sky an old Toto interview revealed that Mercedes have calculated that the advertising revenue the F1 success has generated is equivalent to several BILLION dollars, so I would ask why would they contemplate leaving. McLaren have decided to use the perceived best engine on the current F1 so I applaud them for that. To get a works deal now is probably not going to happen.

Well, if you need to save 500 million dollars to appease your investors, that might be a reason. Who is to say that billion dollars in marketing equals 500 million dollars of additional profit.

[mwillems]

In the pre race video on Sky an old Toto interview revealed that Mercedes have calculated that the advertising revenue the F1 success has generated is equivalent to several BILLION dollars, so I would ask why would they contemplate leaving. McLaren have decided to use the perceived best engine on the current F1 so I applaud them for that. To get a works deal now is probably not going to happen.

Well, if you need to save 500 million dollars to appease your investors, that might be a reason. Who is to say that billion dollars in marketing equals 500 million dollars of additional profit.

In 2019 they reputedly only put in $80m, and I think I've seen something like this before so I think there may be some truth to it.

https://www.racefans.net/2020/01/02/the ... ams-spent/

I doubt however that whatever the number, it is anywhere near $500m and even if it was $150m I don't think it would make a difference to them.

Now the budget cap is coming, Daimler will have no need to put any money in and in fact the team will be quite profitable. Toto, who owns shares, will be laughing all the way to the bank.

Can't see them leaving, I just see politics.

[Big Tea]

I'm not sure how this is still a debate. If anyone doubts that Mercedes is still by far the best engine out there, they must be watching a different F1 than I am. The results from Merc but also RP and even Williams make that amply clear. Taking on that engine is a no-brainer. It has nothing to do with Works status. I also agree with those that say that Aston Martin is FAR more likely than McLaren to become a Works team if that comes to pass -- esp. since Merc supplies engines for AM road cars.

Also worth recalling they are already infront or the works Renault team

[Xero]

This potentially highlights that McLaren's gains are mostly their own, and not just down to the Renault PU. Anyone doubting the switch to Mercedes next year shouldn't worry, it's still the class of the field by some way.

[Mchamilton]

In the pre race video on Sky an old Toto interview revealed that Mercedes have calculated that the advertising revenue the F1 success has generated is equivalent to several BILLION dollars, so I would ask why would they contemplate leaving. McLaren have decided to use the perceived best engine on the current F1 so I applaud them for that. To get a works deal now is probably not going to happen.

Well, if you need to save 500 million dollars to appease your investors, that might be a reason. Who is to say that billion dollars in marketing equals 500 million dollars of additional profit.

The cost to Mercedes benz last year was........ £30million.
The rest is paid for by sponsors and partners.

[Emag]

I don't know why people worry about the Mercedes switch to be honest.
If the team integrates the engine with no compromises (and from what they have said, they won't be restricted by the token system to fit that engine, so that's good news) then the new PU alone has to bring some improvements in laptime, especially on race trim.

Remember, Mercedes developed this power unit to beat the illegal engine Ferrari had last year. And that thing was a beast on qualifying. It was essentially giving Ferrari poles even though usually their car did not have the pace for it. If this new Mercedes power unit is anywhere near that (I am willing to bet it's better, based on some comments Toto has made), then that's seriously very promising for McLaren.

[SmallSoldier]

This potentially highlights that McLaren's gains are mostly their own, and not just down to the Renault PU. Anyone doubting the switch to Mercedes next year shouldn't worry, it's still the class of the field by some way.

Exactly... There is very little risk moving to Mercedes as PU supplier, especially considering new regulations in 2022


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[diffuser]

Well you can think what you want but I have no reason to not believe them. They made the point several times on team stream. So it sounded like a pretty epic final run

Sure, but if you follow the team and notice the times they can do on used sets then you know any time they use a used set in Q3, they are half a second or a second slower than with the new tires. This was happening consistently in each race where they were in Q3 with only one set. There is no chance that Sainz improved with a used set and ended up ahead of Verstappen.

They probably weren’t using the Max Qualy mode in those first runs in the past, no point since they were already using used tires... So the jump in performance was mostly due to engine mode rather than tires (not saying that the tires don’t play a role)... In addition, with so few corners at Monza, the loss of performance from the tires shouldn’t be as big


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Only 1 mode available. The pedal probably wasn't going to the floor.

[SmallSoldier]

Sure, but if you follow the team and notice the times they can do on used sets then you know any time they use a used set in Q3, they are half a second or a second slower than with the new tires. This was happening consistently in each race where they were in Q3 with only one set. There is no chance that Sainz improved with a used set and ended up ahead of Verstappen.

They probably weren’t using the Max Qualy mode in those first runs in the past, no point since they were already using used tires... So the jump in performance was mostly due to engine mode rather than tires (not saying that the tires don’t play a role)... In addition, with so few corners at Monza, the loss of performance from the tires shouldn’t be as big


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Only 1 mode available. The pedal probably wasn't going to the floor.

Before this race? They had different available modes for Qualifying.


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[bauc]

Great qualification for the team, Carlos P3 and Lando P6 on merit, so I'm looking forward to see what they can do in the race tomorrow.

[proteus]

Great qualification for the team, Carlos P3 and Lando P6 on merit, so I'm looking forward to see what they can do in the race tomorrow.

Carlos is actually at the worst possible spot. He might start even better than Bottas, but just enough to get side by side in turn 1-2 which can cost him positions. If he manages to retain his position, then he will start to suffer from lap 3 with DRS being enabled and Mercs allready gone infront of him. He probably wont be able to run away from the chasing pack, since the car is a bit slower when filled with fuel and needs some time to give its full potential.

Tough race tomorrow, hopefully no mechanical breakdowns and both cars in top 10.

[SmallSoldier]

Great qualification for the team, Carlos P3 and Lando P6 on merit, so I'm looking forward to see what they can do in the race tomorrow.

Carlos is actually at the worst possible spot. He might start even better than Bottas, but just enough to get side by side in turn 1-2 which can cost him positions. If he manages to retain his position, then he will start to suffer from lap 3 with DRS being enabled and Mercs allready gone infront of him. He probably wont be able to run away from the chasing pack, since the car is a bit slower when filled with fuel and needs some time to give its full potential.

Tough race tomorrow, hopefully no mechanical breakdowns and both cars in top 10.

Very pessimistic outlook for tomorrow... The tow works up to 4-5 seconds behind a car, so even if Mercedes do build a quick gap, the tow may allow him to keep the cars behind at bay... In addition, running in free air if he can brake the DRS from the cars behind will be beneficial from a tire life perspective.

Pretty hard to tell how the race will develop tomorrow.


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[search]

Pretty hard to tell how the race will develop tomorrow.

yeah, there could be a pretty long train of cars. Having no DRS is not so much of an issue on this track though, as the effect is minimal anyway, but strategy and pit stops could be crucial

[M840TR]

Great qualification for the team, Carlos P3 and Lando P6 on merit, so I'm looking forward to see what they can do in the race tomorrow.

Carlos is actually at the worst possible spot. He might start even better than Bottas, but just enough to get side by side in turn 1-2 which can cost him positions. If he manages to retain his position, then he will start to suffer from lap 3 with DRS being enabled and Mercs allready gone infront of him. He probably wont be able to run away from the chasing pack, since the car is a bit slower when filled with fuel and needs some time to give its full potential.

Tough race tomorrow, hopefully no mechanical breakdowns and both cars in top 10.

Very pessimistic outlook for tomorrow... The tow works up to 4-5 seconds behind a car, so even if Mercedes do build a quick gap, the tow may allow him to keep the cars behind at bay... In addition, running in free air if he can brake the DRS from the cars behind will be beneficial from a tire life perspective.

Pretty hard to tell how the race will develop tomorrow.


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Having DRS can actually help with tire management at Monza by allowing slow exits to protect the rears and still remaining in touch through the slipstream.

What might help the team is having a skinnier rear wing than both RP and Renaults. I’m not sure about the Redbull though.