Honda F1 in trouble, and withdraw from F1

[DaveKillens]

Although Japan's other auto giant Toyota has indicated it intends to remain in F1, things just get worse and worse.
http://money.cnn.com/2009/02/05/news/in ... /index.htm
That means that Toyota intends to cut back approximately 20%. This just makes it harder and harder to justify continued involvement in F1.

[xpensive]

Think about it, even spending the suggested 50 MEUR a year on a racing series is crazy, let alone 300...

[axle]

Think about it, even spending the suggested 50 MEUR a year on a racing series is crazy, let alone 300...

Advertising budget for Toyota will be in the Billions $...considering the global impact and audience of F1 it can represent excellent VFM. However that's when they spend a mere $200m USD on it...

[xpensive]

I don't know if it's such excellent Value For Money to spend 300 MEUR a year to be consistetly thrashed by Mercedes, BMW and...Renault?

[axle]

I don't know if it's such excellent Value For Money to spend 300 MEUR a year to be consistetly thrashed by Mercedes, BMW and...Renault?

Thrashed is an opinion...

Exposure counts for a lot...after and being say 3rd or 4th out of all the manufacturers in the world isn't bad...the others are too pussy to try

[xpensive]

And so is VFM I'm afraid, when that is a rather difficult thing to measure. Corrado Provera's evaluation in 2000, after Peugeot had failed to win a single Grand Prix after seven seasons with three different teams (one of them McLaren btw), was that all exposure was not necessarily beneficial.
For a fraction of the cost, he decided to go and win WRC multiple times instead.
Unfortunately, only one team can win no matter how much money they all spend, something which Honda so painfully discovered in 2008.

[axle]

And so is VFM I'm afraid, when that is a rather difficult thing to measure. Corrado Provera's evaluation in 2000, after Peugeot had failed to win a single Grand Prix after seven seasons with three different teams (one of them McLaren btw), was that all exposure was not necessarily beneficial.
For a fraction of the cost, he decided to go and win WRC multiple times instead.
Unfortunately, only one team can win no matter how much money they all spend, something which Honda so painfully discovered in 2008.

I was talking about Toyota...but anyway...

[xpensive]

Point is, that John Howett has already hinted that unless they win in 2009, chances are that Toyota, just like Peugeot, feels that the exposure alone is not worth it.

[tk421]

I just wish we could see the car they designed so we could compare it to what the other teams have done with theirs.
In so many threads during the 08 season, so many people said that 09 would see Honda return to the front because of their manufacturer backing and Ross Brawn and starting work on the 09 car sooner (cause the 08 car blew ). I hope they can complete the sale and be on the grid in Melbourne, but either way I would really like to see the car they designed.

[donskar]

Think about it, even spending the suggested 50 MEUR a year on a racing series is crazy, let alone 300...

Advertising budget for Toyota will be in the Billions $...considering the global impact and audience of F1 it can represent excellent VFM. However that's when they spend a mere $200m USD on it...

Ummm . . no. Drop at least one zero.

[xpensive]

Right donskar, then when you compare how independent sponsors value the F1 exposure, Credit Suisse was estimated to bring 17 MEUR annually to BMW, you get an idea just how much money Honda and Toyota's 200 or 300 MEUR really is in the context.

[donskar]

Toyota has announced they will lose about 5 billion USD this year. They are laying off people and shutting down many assembly lines.

Yikes! They better show some results EARLY this season.

[xpensive]

Perhaps pulling the plug on Cologne, while staying as engine supplier to Williams in order to save some face?

[timbo]

Well, on one hand I think it is rediculous to shell 300-400 mil USD a year when people get fired.
OTOH FIAT had been in trouble at 90-early 00s and still Ferrari had been well funded.
Working at loss is pretty common for a big company, e.g. AMD is almost always at loss. So I don't think team is under immediate pressure, but of course they'd better show something this year.

[donskar]

Point is, that John Howett has already hinted that unless they win in 2009, chances are that Toyota, just like Peugeot, feels that the exposure alone is not worth it.

Right: being "exposed" as a loser is not necessarily a good thing. [-X

"Win on Sunday, sell on Monday." Lose on Sunday . . . Lose your budget?