USF1 -- F1's All-American Challenger

[donskar]

Great to see the enthusiasm and optimism on this topic from the likes of xpensive and conceptual. I have been skeptical, but will be overjoyed to be proven wrong.

To allay some doubts:

The US does have plenty of capability in carbon fiber (on both coasts).

There is more than enough available technical talent -- especially in the aeronautics and computer industries.

A few of you will remember the very successful Gurney Eagle Indy cars, designed by a repurposed aeronautical engineer, Roman Slobydinski. Plenty of unemployed and underemployed engineers are available on the west coast.

In the US, Cosworth, Mercury, Pink and others have lots of experience in small-ish racing engines. Lots of specialists produce high quality castings and forgings -- blocks, crankshafts, pistons, etc. for the US racing community.

Yes, a lead designer and a tech director (Anderson?) are needed. LOTS of work to be done on the technical and financial sides, but it now looks more like a plan than a dream.

[G-Rock]

Part of Obama's stimulus package (what I heard both from CNN and Rush Limbaugh)is the public funding of American sports and sports affiliated industries. This seems quite incredible to me but I guess sports do contribute to the GDP of a country and may need a jump start as well.

This leads me to surmise that maybe this USF1 team will be publically funded, hence the emphasis on American drivers, engineers, manufacture etc. A protectionist F1 team if I may.

We have seen big teams like Honda and BMW struggle for years, trying to get on the podium and now this "All American Team" thinks they even have a chance to make it on the track by 2010? Come on!! Get real!!

The only way they could do that is to buy an existing team but I guess that wouldn't be supporting the US economy...

[slimjim8201]

General Dynamics in Marion, VA is only 115 miles from Charlotte. GD is a major military supplier and this particular division specializes in composites. They fully sponsored our FSAE team in 2005 when we were building our first-ever carbon chassis.

The possibilities for All-American sponsorship are truly endless. Especially when military supplier companies may be involved.

http://www.generaldynamics.com/

[Conceptual]

General Dynamics in Marion, VA is only 115 miles from Charlotte. GD is a major military supplier and this particular division specializes in composites. They fully sponsored our FSAE team in 2005 when we were building our first-ever carbon chassis.

The possibilities for All-American sponsorship are truly endless. Especially when military supplier companies may be involved.

http://www.generaldynamics.com/

That's all we need, is a camo-painted car on track with a big US ARMY tag on the side...

I thought we would want to keep the Terrorist attacks to a minimum?

[jon-mullen]

Not to mention NASCAR effectively has what you might call an "aero ban" in using the standard template for the Car of Tomorrow, probably leaving a lot of CFD and windtunnel people with racecar engineering backgrounds unemployed or underemployed.

[Moanlower]

General Dynamics in Marion, VA is only 115 miles from Charlotte. GD is a major military supplier and this particular division specializes in composites. They fully sponsored our FSAE team in 2005 when we were building our first-ever carbon chassis.

The possibilities for All-American sponsorship are truly endless. Especially when military supplier companies may be involved.

http://www.generaldynamics.com/

That's all we need, is a camo-painted car on track with a big US ARMY tag on the side...

I thought we would want to keep the Terrorist attacks to a minimum?

We could also expect smoke screens and E-bombs.

[Conceptual]

General Dynamics in Marion, VA is only 115 miles from Charlotte. GD is a major military supplier and this particular division specializes in composites. They fully sponsored our FSAE team in 2005 when we were building our first-ever carbon chassis.

The possibilities for All-American sponsorship are truly endless. Especially when military supplier companies may be involved.

http://www.generaldynamics.com/

That's all we need, is a camo-painted car on track with a big US ARMY tag on the side...

I thought we would want to keep the Terrorist attacks to a minimum?

We could also expect smoke screens and E-bombs.

I'm more concerned about the F-22 air support...

[donskar]

In case anyone missed this from grandprix.com:

The plan is to base the team (and build the cars) in Charlotte, with a European base at Epsilon Euskadi, in the town of Azkoitia, near Bilbao, in Spain. This is run by longtime F1 man Joan Villadelprat who worked for McLaren, Ferrari, Benetton, Tyrrell and Prost during his long F1 career. His chief engineer is Sergio Rinland, another F1 veteran, who worked with Windsor at Williams and Brabham. The team already has impressive manufacturing capabilities and build the Epsilon Euskadi ee1 LMP1 car in 2008.

IF true, that's very positive, because Villadelprat and Rinland are acouple of solid F1 "old hands." And the Epsilon Euskadi has gotten some good technical reviews.

[tk421]

And how about Steve Hallam? He's in North Carolina, has vast experience, is only a year removed from F1...Seems like a logical choice if you can lure him back.

[jddh1]

That's all we need, is a camo-painted car on track with a big US ARMY tag on the side...

I thought we would want to keep the Terrorist attacks to a minimum?

We could also expect smoke screens and E-bombs.

I'm more concerned about the F-22 air support...

What happened to red mushrooms and banana skins?

[jddh1]

No offense

None taken. This is a friendly forum to me and hope to everybody.

...but with the amount of NASCAR teams based in North Carolina, are you saying that none of that talent would translate to F1?

Not saying that at all. In fact, I don't know if that is or is not possible (or anywhere in between.)

I mean, if you can get a team of CATIA monkeys, and a lead designer that can communicate that to the modelers, your only shortfall may come from the lack of carbon fibre layup technicians. Although, the University of North Carolina probably has a sizable facility that could harness student power (free!).

It's true, but is the problem really CF technicians? The problem is always finding qualified and very skilled people to run the projects. With current regulations, small details will win the races. (Remember the lap times in Brazil? More of those by the end of this season and surely 2010.)

Who knows. Even getting the Ferrari monocoque along with the driveline would be a huge start. They can take hi-res photos all year long to figure out the best way to make the skin around it.

Getting a Ferrari monocoque will be difficult because of the warning fired last week by Mosley about "outsourcing" testing, and that might fall under that umbrella. Let's just leave it at "we don't know about that at this point." As far as photos go, well yeah. They'd be stupid not to have a pit-lane photographer in there. I think it will be the cheapest way to gather intelligence over the year and still be legal.

Add that to a TON of CFD (still not under restriction) and access to your own windtunnel...

Who's going to pay for the CFD runs? As far as I remember from not too long ago, it did not take 20 mins on my desktop to run any kind of complex geometry. Can they get an IBM to help with computing power? That will be very helpful if they manage that. And also, even if you own the wind tunnel, you'll have to pay for the power to run it. Perhaps getting the local power company to sponsor the team that way would help.

...and I think that the project management becomes your key to success. If you don't have a person to direct that has the entire perspective, and the understanding of how to prioritize, then you will end up with a very expensive flop.

Exactly my point. The management is the most difficult hiring process. You need to find people that will be on the same page as you. Then the second most difficult part is to hire the skilled personnel. Technicians are the least of their concerns.

If however they get the right person, they may end up with a podium in Melbourne 2010...

I will cheer them on, believe me!

[jddh1]

So, to sum it all up, I still think that they will not be able to run anything on a track of any kind before end of August. Mind you, that will still be a lot earlier than all teams. They desperately need to work on securing funding.

[xpensive]

What, do you seriously suggest that Lord Windsor and his friend would make all that noise without having the money already bagged, is that how you do business in NYC?

[boss]

Carbon Fiber technicians, design expertise, or technology would not be hard to come by at all. The USA and NC aren't barren of CF ability just because our premier race cars are made from mild steel. If I'm not mistaken, carbon fiber was invented here (USA). There's companies like Riley, Crawford, and Elan Motorsports that are pretty close by. If there's anything we (USA) can do better than anyone is make weapons, and composites are big with the defense contractors. Besides the carbon, all of the stuff they need can be made or purchased here in the US and especially in North Carolina.

No, UNC Charlotte does not have any facilities that an F1 team or even Nascar team would be interested in. From what I've seen, academia doesn't have much to offer a real life race team, even the universities that really really want to be part of racing. Your idea has some merit though, there's no reason young, inexperienced people can't layup carbon with the right supervision.

If you look into the story a bit more, you might find that they basically will own the windtunnel (that is already built). It is probably quite a power hungry windtunnel though.

[Chaparral]

What, do you seriously suggest that Lord Windsor and his friend would make all that noise without having the money already bagged, is that how you do business in NYC?

Im with you Xpensive I said this right up front on this thread - I suspect the financials are already in place to be able to run in 2010 I would think and planning well advanced on the design and power plant/transmission/personnel etc. Most people here on this forum will have no idea of the scale of race tech thats available in the Charlotte area or US in general - its phenomenal - my journo mate (Peter McKay) did a five page spread for Wheels Magazine (the premium motoring/motor sport glossy here in Australia) on Penske' operation - it is massive - far bigger than any F1 operation and I'd suspect they would have a hand in this venture to some degree along with the many other companies available........I really wish them good luck with this and dont forget Jonathon Summerton for a driving gig