question about technicaly a fan car

[ehangeto4]

with the return of ground effect on F1 cars i remeber the alfa romeo bt46b, lias the fan car, for what i know the fans are forbiden because they are movile aerodinamic parts, but today are wing less fans that work by ionizing the air (i think), could this technology be used on F1 to improbe aerodinamics or even cooling? they have no moving parts but this techonlogy has been aviable for years and no team had tried it why?

[raymondu999]

Do you mean "bladeless"fans such as the Dyson? Those actually have fans.

And I assume you mean the BRABHAM (rather than ALFA ROMEO) bt46b

[NathanOlder]

I can't answer the question in the original post, but I do have a question on the subject of the Brabham Fan Car. Does anyone know why it was 8 years or so between the Chaparral 2J sucker car, and the Fan car in F1. Why so long? Was it simply down to no one thinking it was legal until Brabham came up with an excuse to use it in the way they did?

[Jolle]

I can't answer the question in the original post, but I do have a question on the subject of the Brabham Fan Car. Does anyone know why it was 8 years or so between the Chaparral 2J sucker car, and the Fan car in F1. Why so long? Was it simply down to no one thinking it was legal until Brabham came up with an excuse to use it in the way they did?

I guess.... it has to do with the interpretations of the rules... movable aero wasn't allowed but, officially the fan was for engine cooling, so it was allowed (the car actually wasn't banned right away, Ecclestone, who was already busy trying unite the manufacturers to make a s-load of money pulled it himself to keep the peace). Also, the Brabham used the engine itself to drive the fan while the Chaparral used one or two lawnmower engines I believe.

[Ringleheim]

There are a number of good interviews with Gordon Murray on Youtube right now, discussing the forthcoming new supercar, which features a fan.

He was talking a lot about the Brabham in the one I saw. I think with Harry from Harry's Garage; it may have been Chris Harris. I watched both.

[AnthonyG]

Do you mean "bladeless"fans such as the Dyson? Those actually have fans.

And I assume you mean the BRABHAM (rather than ALFA ROMEO) bt46b

I think he refers to something similar to this. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ion_wind

[jjn9128]

I can't answer the question in the original post, but I do have a question on the subject of the Brabham Fan Car. Does anyone know why it was 8 years or so between the Chaparral 2J sucker car, and the Fan car in F1. Why so long? Was it simply down to no one thinking it was legal until Brabham came up with an excuse to use it in the way they did?

Nobody put 2 and 2 together about the "primary" purpose of the fan being for cooling. It was necessity because Murray couldn't fit ground effect tunnels around the flat Alfa engine. He even jokes somewhere that he was p/o'd because he aimed for 45:55 downforce:cooling but when the FISA/FIA measured it with anemometers it was closer to 40:60

[NathanOlder]

Thanks guys , appreciate it.

[LM10]

Do you mean "bladeless"fans such as the Dyson? Those actually have fans.

And I assume you mean the BRABHAM (rather than ALFA ROMEO) bt46b

I think the technology he means is this:

[jh199]

This is a really cool idea! Here's another link further describing how ionic propulsion works.



I could imagine using this tech one day near the diffuser to increase its angle while keeping the flow attached. You could have a high positive voltage just before the diffuser bends upwards and then have a high negative voltage at the rear edge of the diffuser. This could effectively increase the diffuser angle, much like the new T.50's does with the fan, without using any movable aerodynamic parts.

[Scorpaguy]

This is a really cool idea! Here's another link further describing how ionic propulsion works.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=boB6qu5dcCw&t=1m40s

I could imagine using this tech one day near the diffuser to increase its angle while keeping the flow attached. You could have a high positive voltage just before the diffuser bends upwards and then have a high negative voltage at the rear edge of the diffuser. This could effectively increase the diffuser angle, much like the new T.50's does with the fan, without using any movable aerodynamic parts.

I think this is the type of tech F1 should pursue instead of the reverse engineered aviation aero crap. Such could have road car applications for both performance and efficiency.. esp when teamed with dynamic chassis geometry and more powerful battery design.

[jh199]

This is a really cool idea! Here's another link further describing how ionic propulsion works.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=boB6qu5dcCw&t=1m40s

I could imagine using this tech one day near the diffuser to increase its angle while keeping the flow attached. You could have a high positive voltage just before the diffuser bends upwards and then have a high negative voltage at the rear edge of the diffuser. This could effectively increase the diffuser angle, much like the new T.50's does with the fan, without using any movable aerodynamic parts.

I think this is the type of tech F1 should pursue instead of the reverse engineered aviation aero crap. Such could have road car applications for both performance and efficiency.. esp when teamed with dynamic chassis geometry and more powerful battery design.

I totally agree. Although with this tech in particular I'm not sure how safe it would be to have an exposed wire running at 20,000 volts

[V12-POWER]

true antigravitics is not ionic wind it’s a mix of a positive and negative “side” with very very high voltages on the leading edge of an aircraft, preferably with a uniform shape such as a circle or a triangle (flying wing aircraft)

this propulsion method works in vacuum too and it does not obey the laws of gravity

the original works on electrogravitics were by Townsend brown based on some discoveries by Nikola tesla which I can’t remember right now

this tech was applied to the B2 bomber which in some videos can be seen almost completely silent. It is a “hybrid” though, since it has to rely on the turbofan engines for most of stuff

[PlatinumZealot]

At all depends on the regulations.... The wheels on the cars can be made to be fans... But regs limit that ability.
The road itself is relativley moving to the car, holes in the floor aka double diffuser and others slats and vanes, even variable geometry slats and vanes could make well of the ground effect... But they are banned.

F-duct was another attempt at manipulating down force ; banned again.

Blown diffuser the same.

It so sad that any new idea in this vein will get banned soon after.