This forum contains threads to discuss teams themselves. Anything not technical about the cars, including restructuring, performances etc belongs here.
verstappen vs albon q3 lap (open in yt)
It seems verstappen has signifcantly more straight line speed, even disregarding main straight and a tow from bottas (-0.26s just before braking zone) he's still arriving with more speed at pretty much every corner by 3-4 kmh, even on the back straight with no tow. I think this new engine is giving Max a lot more performance compared to the one alex is using, which I think is still the old unit? Correct me if im wrong here. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t_ykPm4L09I
Could be, but in the video you can also see that Ves is cleaner on turn in in just about every corner. It is just cm stuff but it means he hits the apexes better an get earlier on the throttle. That can easily get you a couple of tenths down the straight.
verstappen vs albon q3 lap (open in yt)
It seems verstappen has signifcantly more straight line speed, even disregarding main straight and a tow from bottas (-0.26s just before braking zone) he's still arriving with more speed at pretty much every corner by 3-4 kmh, even on the back straight with no tow. I think this new engine is giving Max a lot more performance compared to the one alex is using, which I think is still the old unit? Correct me if im wrong here. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t_ykPm4L09I
Could be, but in the video you can also see that Ves is cleaner on turn in in just about every corner. It is just cm stuff but it means he hits the apexes better an get earlier on the throttle. That can easily get you a couple of tenths down the straight.
Thanks for sharing.
Max just has better turn in; that is what I noticed the most. He is taking a lot more curb in some of those 90 degree corners, and on turn 3 he is holding the inside a lot longer, which the latter doesn't make sense since he is running less downforce. Weird. It's very fascinating to watch actually, Albon had quite a clean lap but still could not come within 1 sec. That is quite ridiculous.
Looks to me like VES is happy to carry quite a lot less DF on the car but is able to keep the min apex speed higher on the majority of the corners just ahead of Albon and only a few in S3 just a few km/h below him. the real gains are made accelerating out of the corners towards top speed.
That cars balance is on a knife edge to extract peak performance. He just seems to be able to live close to it without making too many errors. Exceptional drive
But Albon is indeed still on the older unit. His third though. I too have the impression the new one is slightly more potent.
The speed difference comes from many factors. Max himself said this was one of his best qualy laps. And he almost never says that.
Alex is on his 3rd Turbo Charger and MGUH, the rest are still 2nd. Alpha Tauri was on schedule to use the 3rd elements, but Max was expedited because of the issues. Alex will receive the 3rd ICE and MGUK within the next couple of races.
Last edited by ispano6 on 27 Sep 2020, 15:03, edited 3 times in total.
Maybe the approach to the out lap? Cannot think of anything else since after FP3 no more changes are allowed.
No, you can make changes until you go out on your first lap in Qualifying
What Max is talking about is the allowed changes under par ferme like tyre pressures, front wing levels, brake bias, differential setting, ERS deployments etc all these can have a significant change
Indeed - changes can be done until Q1. Forgot the time between FP3 and Qualy, but that's pretty much what I had in mind.
With that said, Max is talking about his 2nd run in Q3, not before qualy as you're mentioning. Some of the changes you mentioned, I don't believe are allowed. Moreover, he was talking about grip, and not withstanding the fact that teams wouldn't be changing ERS deployment strategy half way through Q3, the latter 3 you mentioned don't really contribute much, if at all, towards grip.
They are allowed. You can't change parts. You can adjust settings within the range of those parts Wouter mentioned.
Also, Alex struggles on low fuel runs, I think he's mentioned that before where the low fuel making the car lighter makes it behave more unpredictably.
Looks to me like VES is happy to carry quite a lot less DF on the car but is able to keep the min apex speed higher on the majority of the corners just ahead of Albon and only a few in S3 just a few km/h below him. the real gains are made accelerating out of the corners towards top speed.
That cars balance is on a knife edge to extract peak performance. He just seems to be able to live close to it without making too many errors. Exceptional drive
That is the mark of a great driver from a good driver
Drivers like Senna, Schumacher, Alonso, Lewis are all able to do that.
Max just has better turn in; that is what I noticed the most. He is taking a lot more curb in some of those 90 degree corners, and on turn 3 he is holding the inside a lot longer, which the latter doesn't make sense since he is running less downforce. Weird. It's very fascinating to watch actually, Albon had quite a clean lap but still could not come within 1 sec. That is quite ridiculous.
When master of some skill showed his skill, it will look like it is something too easy to someone who watching it. But when the man who hasn't got that skill tried to do it he understands it is not easy.
From a German interview with Helmut Marko yesterday.
The Austrian is downright enthusiastic when he reveals F1-Insider.com on the phone. “At dinner Max suddenly started with the idea of qualifying for Q3 with the yellow tires. We yesterday thought that was impossible
But he insisted and promised: If you convert the car in a special direction, I'll easily make it into the top three.
That's unbelievable. "
verstappen vs albon q3 lap (open in yt)
It seems verstappen has signifcantly more straight line speed, even disregarding main straight and a tow from bottas (-0.26s just before braking zone) he's still arriving with more speed at pretty much every corner by 3-4 kmh, even on the back straight with no tow. I think this new engine is giving Max a lot more performance compared to the one alex is using, which I think is still the old unit? Correct me if im wrong here. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t_ykPm4L09I
Could be, but in the video you can also see that Ves is cleaner on turn in in just about every corner. It is just cm stuff but it means he hits the apexes better an get earlier on the throttle. That can easily get you a couple of tenths down the straight.
Thanks for sharing.
I guess I'm validated again, I've been telling its not the same modes over and over and being called a troll when infact I've been a Honda fan lifelong. Now we have actual proof.
If Max can manage to last his engine for the remainder of season than i will eat crow. Alex was prolly 5-7 tenths behind in terms of true pace, rest is the modes.
Max added more downforce in Q3 so how he is 5kph when engine is at max rpm cant be explained. Freezing frames at the apex and out of corners they literally have same speed on most corners. As for the old engine theory, why do we not see the same issue with the other engine supplier? Its overexagerrated theory, if engine is reliable then it will be able to take the highest mode over 6 races easy. Besides they turn it down in practice.
verstappen vs albon q3 lap (open in yt)
It seems verstappen has signifcantly more straight line speed, even disregarding main straight and a tow from bottas (-0.26s just before braking zone) he's still arriving with more speed at pretty much every corner by 3-4 kmh, even on the back straight with no tow. I think this new engine is giving Max a lot more performance compared to the one alex is using, which I think is still the old unit? Correct me if im wrong here. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t_ykPm4L09I
Could be, but in the video you can also see that Ves is cleaner on turn in in just about every corner. It is just cm stuff but it means he hits the apexes better an get earlier on the throttle. That can easily get you a couple of tenths down the straight.
Thanks for sharing.
I guess I'm validated again, I've been telling its not the same modes over and over and being called a troll when infact I've been a Honda fan lifelong. Now we have actual proof.
If Max can manage to last his engine for the remainder of season than i will eat crow. Alex was prolly 5-7 tenths behind in terms of true pace, rest is the modes.
Max added more downforce in Q3 so how he is 5kph when engine is at max rpm cant be explained. Freezing frames at the apex and out of corners they literally have same speed on most corners. As for the old engine theory, why do we not see the same issue with the other engine supplier? Its overexagerrated theory, if engine is reliable then it will be able to take the highest mode over 6 races easy. Besides they turn it down in practice.
literally everyone, including verstappen, and albon both are saying verstappen had less wings.
From a German interview with Helmut Marko yesterday.
The Austrian is downright enthusiastic when he reveals F1-Insider.com on the phone. “At dinner Max suddenly started with the idea of qualifying for Q3 with the yellow tires. We yesterday thought that was impossible
But he insisted and promised: If you convert the car in a special direction, I'll easily make it into the top three.
That's unbelievable. "
He (Max) already made some comments about that after FP2, he said we tried a lot of things and some were good for the race. It looked like a “bad” session from the timing sheets but they learned a lot there.
verstappen vs albon q3 lap (open in yt)
It seems verstappen has signifcantly more straight line speed, even disregarding main straight and a tow from bottas (-0.26s just before braking zone) he's still arriving with more speed at pretty much every corner by 3-4 kmh, even on the back straight with no tow. I think this new engine is giving Max a lot more performance compared to the one alex is using, which I think is still the old unit? Correct me if im wrong here. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t_ykPm4L09I
Could be, but in the video you can also see that Ves is cleaner on turn in in just about every corner. It is just cm stuff but it means he hits the apexes better an get earlier on the throttle. That can easily get you a couple of tenths down the straight.
Thanks for sharing.
I guess I'm validated again, I've been telling its not the same modes over and over and being called a troll when infact I've been a Honda fan lifelong. Now we have actual proof.
If Max can manage to last his engine for the remainder of season than i will eat crow. Alex was prolly 5-7 tenths behind in terms of true pace, rest is the modes.
Max added more downforce in Q3 so how he is 5kph when engine is at max rpm cant be explained. Freezing frames at the apex and out of corners they literally have same speed on most corners. As for the old engine theory, why do we not see the same issue with the other engine supplier? Its overexagerrated theory, if engine is reliable then it will be able to take the highest mode over 6 races easy. Besides they turn it down in practice.
You can freeze frames all you want but it is so obvious Max is hitting all the kerbs while Albon just misses the apex, do you really not understand that if you drive a different line (Make the corner shorter) your exit speed can be better (in these 90 degrees corners). Even if you are at the same speed mid corner. You can also quite clearly see this in that super long corner where Max simply rides much less meters. Also, you can change the set up, but only with the parts you have on the car during the FP3, Q sessions. Been explained over and over and yet you keep riding your agenda.
You can freeze frames all you want but it is so obvious Max is hitting all the kerbs while Albon just misses the apex, do you really not understand that if you drive a different line (Make the corner shorter) your exit speed can be better (in these 90 degrees corners). Even if you are at the same speed mid corner. You can also quite clearly see this in that super long corner where Max simply rides much less meters. Also, you can change the set up, but only with the parts you have on the car during the FP3, Q sessions. Been explained over and over and yet you keep riding your agenda.
Expect for the super long corners you mention all the other 90 corners, they are both hitting the kerb almost identically at same apex and exit speed, acceleration phase is where the higher kph is seen, even in braking Max isnt making much time which is usually where he excels.
