2020 Russian Grand Prix - Sochi Autodrom, September 25 - 27

[Phil]

So I want someone to explain to me if I am mad to think this - but should Sainz have also got some kind of reprimand or penalty for his reckless driving that led to his accident? He has purposefully gone full speed trying not to lose time through the bollards, had a big accident and then come back across the track endangering other peoples lives in the process?

Some have been arguing that Sainz should have braked or whatever, but IMO, what most fail to realize is that once you come over those sausage-kerbs, or whatever they call them, it unsettles the car and depending on the trajectory, it's not that easy to simply brake, change your trajectory and make that narrow entry without hitting the bollards.

To some extend, you are a by-passenger until the car stables out and you regain control.

As an example; Braking hard changes the load on the front tires, makes the rear light and if you at the same time attempt to corner, you run the risk of losing the rear. This is all happening off track, where grip is decreased too.

I'm not saying it's impossible - evidently, most drivers who completely left the track there had a much better angle to the bollards and safely managed to navigate them to enter the track at the designated area. To those that only just came over that kerb (like Sainz, Grosjean and Riccardo, who didn't even attempt to make the bollards and thus received a penalty), the angle was perhaps too shallow and the danger quite high to either hit the bollards or the wall.

I think the fact that we've had 2 incidents all in the same spot (Sainz, Grosjean) underlines that perhaps the placement of those bollards wasn't that great.

[SiLo]

So I want someone to explain to me if I am mad to think this - but should Sainz have also got some kind of reprimand or penalty for his reckless driving that led to his accident? He has purposefully gone full speed trying not to lose time through the bollards, had a big accident and then come back across the track endangering other peoples lives in the process?

I've been heavily disagreed with on Reddit, but I'm quite certain that the bollards are there so you enter the track safely again, and he has almost ignored it entirely.

Most people have said his penalty was his front wheel being smashed off, but I don't agree that the outcome of your actions should dictate whether you get a penalty or not.

It would be harsh, but I would understand penalty points on his license.

I think the much bigger issue is the arrangement of the boards in that area, which promotes high speed slalom next to that wall jutting out which is prone to spitting the car back onto the track. Carlos should be excessively penalized for horrendous track/safety design. Yet again a large portion of the failing is on Masi.

Yeah, I'm pretty much of the same opinion. Like, 2 penalty points to me would have been perfectly acceptable. It's not punishing him much further, but highlights the need to be sensible when rejoining the track.

[214270]

Stewarding should be taken out of the hands of these randoms at the FIA and driver-approved personnel put in charge.

Imagine a well-respected racer a la ALO who’s well-travelled in his F1 career and has pissed everyone off (so has no real ties) being at the helm. ALO is just an example before anyone tells me he’s back racing in F1 next year

Put ROS in charge of them Also let him replace Crofty same time

Hahaha. I know you say his name in jest, but I don’t trust ROS to get the racing stuff correct.

As far as Crofty goes, I understand many don’t like him & think he’s prone to mistakes but so was Murray Walker. I really do appreciate his ability to transmit tension by raising the pitch in his voice. I’m often in another room and can follow the race this way. His commentary in Silverstone when HAM had his puncture was stellar; for me he made the spectacle much more exciting.

I don’t know whether there’s a thread on him already, maybe I’ll start one.

[basti313]

....The Event Notes for Sochi are not as specific, I think it was a fair call from Mercedes that what was allowed at previous events would be allowed here since the rules don't specifically exlcude it.

Your interpretations get more and more crazy. Even Andrew Shovlin clearly said, that the penalty was expected once they saw where Hamilton was doing the practice start. The problem was, that the race engineer thought he moves just a bit further up. And not right into the pit exit...
I am completely surprised...stopping where Hamilton stopped is forbidden on every track.No idea why he did it. You always need to move to the side, away from the fast lane and certainly not somewhere on the track. 'The only thing to argue is if he did it in the fast lane (breach of 19.2) or if he stopped on the track (breach like mentioned by the stewards), because the fast lane is not really limited.

[SiLo]

....The Event Notes for Sochi are not as specific, I think it was a fair call from Mercedes that what was allowed at previous events would be allowed here since the rules don't specifically exlcude it.

Your interpretations get more and more crazy. Even Andrew Shovlin clearly said, that the penalty was expected once they saw where Hamilton was doing the practice start. The problem was, that the race engineer thought he moves just a bit further up. And not right into the pit exit...
I am completely surprised...stopping where Hamilton stopped is forbidden on every track.No idea why he did it. You always need to move to the side, away from the fast lane and certainly not somewhere on the track. 'The only thing to argue is if he did it in the fast lane (breach of 19.2) or if he stopped on the track (breach like mentioned by the stewards), because the fast lane is not really limited.

The fast lane is anywhere after the pit exit line.

[cooken]

....The Event Notes for Sochi are not as specific, I think it was a fair call from Mercedes that what was allowed at previous events would be allowed here since the rules don't specifically exlcude it.

Your interpretations get more and more crazy. Even Andrew Shovlin clearly said, that the penalty was expected once they saw where Hamilton was doing the practice start. The problem was, that the race engineer thought he moves just a bit further up. And not right into the pit exit...
I am completely surprised...stopping where Hamilton stopped is forbidden on every track.No idea why he did it. You always need to move to the side, away from the fast lane and certainly not somewhere on the track. 'The only thing to argue is if he did it in the fast lane (breach of 19.2) or if he stopped on the track (breach like mentioned by the stewards), because the fast lane is not really limited.

The debrief will hopefully clarify, but my recollection was when they saw where Ham did it from they thought "they probably won't like that", which is very different than expecting a penalty. My understanding is they expected an inquiry or warning, so I don't think it is as clear cut as you are making it out to be.

Again, let's see what comes out in their debrief.

[i70q7m7ghw]

Your interpretations get more and more crazy. Even Andrew Shovlin clearly said, that the penalty was expected once they saw where Hamilton was doing the practice start. The problem was, that the race engineer thought he moves just a bit further up. And not right into the pit exit...
I am completely surprised...stopping where Hamilton stopped is forbidden on every track.No idea why he did it. You always need to move to the side, away from the fast lane and certainly not somewhere on the track. 'The only thing to argue is if he did it in the fast lane (breach of 19.2) or if he stopped on the track (breach like mentioned by the stewards), because the fast lane is not really limited.

He drove to the end of the pit wall, this is a location specified in the Event Notes for many other tracks, so your assertion that "stopping where Hamilton stopped is forbidden on every track" is not correct. Please read the Event Notes I have posted before commenting further. Also, he was only penalised for breaching 19.1, read the stewards notes, 19.2 was not mentioned as being breached.

[Big Tea]

So, if they had made a decision, confident enough to issue it (unofficially) to the press, why was it 10 min later when the team knew? There could well have been a safety car in that time, or even a pit stop required for puncture etc? that smells a bit of waiting for the biggest impact.

You have a double 5 second penalty, but we knew 10 min ago. Hmmm.

[JamesS]

He drove to the end of the pit wall, this is a location specified in the Event Notes for many other tracks, so your assertion that "stopping where Hamilton stopped is forbidden on every track" is not correct. Please read the Event Notes I have posted before commenting further. Also, he was only penalised for breaching 19.1, read the stewards notes, 19.2 was not mentioned as being breached.

Late to the party, which page did you post the race notes on?

[i70q7m7ghw]

He drove to the end of the pit wall, this is a location specified in the Event Notes for many other tracks, so your assertion that "stopping where Hamilton stopped is forbidden on every track" is not correct. Please read the Event Notes I have posted before commenting further. Also, he was only penalised for breaching 19.1, read the stewards notes, 19.2 was not mentioned as being breached.

Late to the party, which page did you post the race notes on?

All here viewtopic.php?f=13&t=29392&p=930942#p930942

EDIT: All original notes can be found here: https://www.fia.com/documents/season/season-2020-1059

[SiLo]

So, if they had made a decision, confident enough to issue it (unofficially) to the press, why was it 10 min later when the team knew? There could well have been a safety car in that time, or even a pit stop required for puncture etc? that smells a bit of waiting for the biggest impact.

You have a double 5 second penalty, but we knew 10 min ago. Hmmm.

It was leaked to the press by Mika Salo, there might be some paperwork that they have to finalise before they issue the penalty, likely the actual penalty document before sending it to the team.

[dans79]

So, if they had made a decision, confident enough to issue it (unofficially) to the press, why was it 10 min later when the team knew? There could well have been a safety car in that time, or even a pit stop required for puncture etc? that smells a bit of waiting for the biggest impact.

You have a double 5 second penalty, but we knew 10 min ago. Hmmm.

If the leak did happen, and the timeline can be proven then this is far from over for Mika and the Stewards/FIA. If its all true, I'd find it hard to believe some form of legal action doesn't occur as that's a clear case of discrimination/bias against a competitor.

[SiLo]

So, if they had made a decision, confident enough to issue it (unofficially) to the press, why was it 10 min later when the team knew? There could well have been a safety car in that time, or even a pit stop required for puncture etc? that smells a bit of waiting for the biggest impact.

You have a double 5 second penalty, but we knew 10 min ago. Hmmm.

If the leak did happen, and the timeline can be proven then this is far from over for Mika and the Stewards/FIA. If its all true, I'd find it hard to believe some form of legal action doesn't occur as that's a clear case of discrimination/bias against a competitor.

Knowing 10 minutes before it is issued could have a big impact on race strategy for teams.

[dans79]

Knowing 10 minutes before it is issued could have a big impact on race strategy for teams.

Yep

[bosyber]

Knowing 10 minutes before it is issued could have a big impact on race strategy for teams.

Yep

Not to mention betting (companies), which is where he will face touch legal challenges if this holds up I'd expect. And they are expert at showing how their rates and/or payouts were influenced by this, ie. damages.