Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

[etusch]

Yes, I am secret agent paid by Mercedes to infiltrate forums and spread misinformation in the guise of reasoning.

They clearly have an oil deploy button hidden somewhere that makes the piston rings open up and let the secret fluid flood the cylinder. Probably FIA are aware but who knows what sort of kompromat the germans have on them.

haha still acting same way.

[NL_Fer]

For those who still believe oil burning is a thing:

Assume the car burns 0.9l of oil (300km race, 0.3l/km) per race and assume a team somehow manages to formulate an oil blend with the same heating values as fuel (say 45MJ/kg) which the FIA somehow fails to notice. Say 50 laps per race, 100s per lap gives roughly 6.5kW available in this fuel/oil per lap at 800kg/m^3 oil density.

Now say this can be converted with some 25% efficiency given than it can only find its way into the combustion chamber by going past the rings and hence will burn very poorly. That's about 2 horsepower.

Do you still think this is something that can be exploited ?

0,9l per race.

What if it would be used for only 3 laps, just 1st lap and 2 pit inlaps? That would be 0.3l for only 60s full throttle operation.

[63l8qrrfy6]

For those who still believe oil burning is a thing:

Assume the car burns 0.9l of oil (300km race, 0.3l/km) per race and assume a team somehow manages to formulate an oil blend with the same heating values as fuel (say 45MJ/kg) which the FIA somehow fails to notice. Say 50 laps per race, 100s per lap gives roughly 6.5kW available in this fuel/oil per lap at 800kg/m^3 oil density.

Now say this can be converted with some 25% efficiency given than it can only find its way into the combustion chamber by going past the rings and hence will burn very poorly. That's about 2 horsepower.

Do you still think this is something that can be exploited ?

0,9l per race.

What if it would be used for only 3 laps, just 1st lap and 2 pit inlaps? That would be 0.3l for only 60s full throttle operation.

A race engine with 0 oil consumption? That would be the invention of the century. If they can do that they are unstoppable!

[etusch]

For those who still believe oil burning is a thing:

Assume the car burns 0.9l of oil (300km race, 0.3l/km) per race and assume a team somehow manages to formulate an oil blend with the same heating values as fuel (say 45MJ/kg) which the FIA somehow fails to notice. Say 50 laps per race, 100s per lap gives roughly 6.5kW available in this fuel/oil per lap at 800kg/m^3 oil density.

Now say this can be converted with some 25% efficiency given than it can only find its way into the combustion chamber by going past the rings and hence will burn very poorly. That's about 2 horsepower.

Do you still think this is something that can be exploited ?

0,9l per race.

What if it would be used for only 3 laps, just 1st lap and 2 pit inlaps? That would be 0.3l for only 60s full throttle operation.

They just keep gap constant and when needed just pushes a few laps good enough to make an advantage over verstappen. But fans are very keen to talk about it, as if it is either whole race or not even a lap.

[ispano6]

Bring Mugen to the game, and then you'll be fine. Let RBR invest the money they won't be able to throw with the budget cap, and the rest with Honda still developing the Pu with RB help. That will save a lot of costs to Honda, and RB can keep spending more having a benefice with the PU and probably keep a lot of staff in Honda MK

Mugen is a Japanese company and not likely to have the means to continue the project. HPD is North American and located in Valencia, California. If anything, I think Acura should be involved especially if F1 is to grow more in the states. It would make more sense to market High performance Acura luxury cars, kind of like Renault with Alpine.

[Marti_EF3]

Bring Mugen to the game, and then you'll be fine. Let RBR invest the money they won't be able to throw with the budget cap, and the rest with Honda still developing the Pu with RB help. That will save a lot of costs to Honda, and RB can keep spending more having a benefice with the PU and probably keep a lot of staff in Honda MK

Mugen is a Japanese company and not likely to have the means to continue the project. HPD is North American and located in Valencia, California. If anything, I think Acura should be involved especially if F1 is to grow more in the states. It would make more sense to market High performance Acura luxury cars, kind of like Renault with Alpine.

Milton Keynes base is property of Mugen (M-Tec), so I don't see any problems with it happening... But it's a rumour/hope

[Revs84]

For those who still believe oil burning is a thing:

Assume the car burns 0.9l of oil (300km race, 0.3l/km) per race and assume a team somehow manages to formulate an oil blend with the same heating values as fuel (say 45MJ/kg) which the FIA somehow fails to notice. Say 50 laps per race, 100s per lap gives roughly 6.5kW available in this fuel/oil per lap at 800kg/m^3 oil density.

Now say this can be converted with some 25% efficiency given than it can only find its way into the combustion chamber by going past the rings and hence will burn very poorly. That's about 2 horsepower.

Do you still think this is something that can be exploited ?

0,9l per race.

What if it would be used for only 3 laps, just 1st lap and 2 pit inlaps? That would be 0.3l for only 60s full throttle operation.

A race engine with 0 oil consumption? That would be the invention of the century. If they can do that they are unstoppable!

Well they have been so far haven't they? Does this mean the engine has no oil consumption?

[Big Tea]

Bring Mugen to the game, and then you'll be fine. Let RBR invest the money they won't be able to throw with the budget cap, and the rest with Honda still developing the Pu with RB help. That will save a lot of costs to Honda, and RB can keep spending more having a benefice with the PU and probably keep a lot of staff in Honda MK

Mugen is a Japanese company and not likely to have the means to continue the project. HPD is North American and located in Valencia, California. If anything, I think Acura should be involved especially if F1 is to grow more in the states. It would make more sense to market High performance Acura luxury cars, kind of like Renault with Alpine.

They would not have to fund it, Red Bull would do that, just manage it (assuming by have the means, you refer to cost)

[63l8qrrfy6]

A race engine with 0 oil consumption? That would be the invention of the century. If they can do that they are unstoppable!

Well they have been so far haven't they? Does this mean the engine has no oil consumption?

Yea, although if that's the case their rings must be so tight they are losing more power in friction than they make by burning oil.

But why should we let simple engineering get in the way of a conspiracy theory ?

[GhostF1]

https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/15260 ... se-rumours

Key Points of Interest:

- Horner claims there is absolutely no engine related exit clause in Max's contract.
- Dietrich Mateschitz gets the final say in which PU direction they go.
- They need total clarity on which way they are going before years end.
- Horner has changed his tone and has vaguely positive things to say about Renault's restructuring and it's new Board.

Most interestingly concerning Honda...

- Honda are bringing forward their "brand new 2022 engine for 2021 which has brought great optimism to the team and Max" who are expecting a good jump forward.

"He is competitive. He feels very comfortable in the team and believes strongly in the Honda program.

"I think he also sees that Honda has brought forward their engine from 2022 to 2021. That is encouraging, of course.

"So we will take another step forward next year. He's excited about this, and he still has a long way to go until 2022."

[Revs84]

https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/15260 ... se-rumours

Key Points of Interest:

- Horner claims there is absolutely no engine related exit clause in Max's contract.
- Dietrich Mateschitz gets the final say in which PU direction they go.
- They need total clarity on which way they are going before years end.
- Horner has changed his tone and has vaguely positive things to say about Renault's restructuring and it's new Board.

Most interestingly concerning Honda...

- Honda are bringing forward their "brand new 2022 engine for 2021 which has brought great optimism to the team and Max" who are expecting a good jump forward.

"He is competitive. He feels very comfortable in the team and believes strongly in the Honda program.

"I think he also sees that Honda has brought forward their engine from 2022 to 2021. That is encouraging, of course.

"So we will take another step forward next year. He's excited about this, and he still has a long way to go until 2022."

Honda did say they will only pull out their resources at the end of year. They didn't specify which resources though.

But combining both statements, I'm led to believe that they will introduce the '22 spec possibly half way through the year. If I'm not mistaken, for next year, they are allowed to bring on in-season update for the ICE, MGU-H and TC.

From a championship point of view it makes sense, if they really want to challenge for the championship.

Looking at the fact that they plan to pull out at the end of the year, it's quite surprising though, as I would have kind of expected them to start phasing out their R&D engineers slowly once the championship starts.

I surely hope they do keep developing as far as they can and that we will finally see them winning at least the WDC

[Wouter]

You are right @Revs84

[tangodjango]

You are right @Revs84

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Eim3bpoXcAA ... name=small

If they locked down the K,H and ICE part by the beginning of the 2022 season with only 1 update to the ICE over the next 2-3 years it would be feasible for Red Bull to keep running the Honda engine. It would be only one less change per component overall apart from fuel.

[Wouter]

You are right @Revs84

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Eim3bpoXcAA ... name=small

If they locked down the K,H and ICE part by the beginning of the 2022 season with only 1 update to the ICE over the next 2-3 years it would be feasible for Red Bull to keep running the Honda engine. It would be only one less change per component overall apart from fuel.

I was thinking about that too.
Next year they will get the 2022 spec and at the end of 2021 they already have the 2023 spec ready.

[Fulcrum]

For those who still believe oil burning is a thing:

Assume the car burns 0.9l of oil (300km race, 0.3l/km) per race and assume a team somehow manages to formulate an oil blend with the same heating values as fuel (say 45MJ/kg) which the FIA somehow fails to notice. Say 50 laps per race, 100s per lap gives roughly 6.5kW available in this fuel/oil per lap at 800kg/m^3 oil density.

Now say this can be converted with some 25% efficiency given than it can only find its way into the combustion chamber by going past the rings and hence will burn very poorly. That's about 2 horsepower.

Do you still think this is something that can be exploited ?

Umm, wouldn't that be 0.003l/km?