2020 Eifel Grand Prix - Nürburgring, October 9-11

[El Scorchio]

Ah man. Even the doors of the Ferrari motor home aren’t working. Binotto just got stuck outside and had to give up.

Unless they’ve cancelled his accreditation ?

[El Scorchio]

Rosberg just savaged Vettel on Sky sports.

That was a roasting and a half, but it was more or less deserved tbh. Either Vettel has completely lost the plot, or he is being completely disregarded, which is a bit of a sabotage. I would expect something like that from Ferrari tho, they're the most political team in F1 for lack of a better term.

It reminds me a bit of what Jacques Villeneuve went thru at bar with Richards at the helm in 2003. He was replaced by Sato in the final GP. Foreshadowing perhaps ?

My feeling is that his heart and head is elsewhere and they are just giving him the minimum of support. Maybe just going through the motions until the end of the season.

[Sieper]

Rosberg just savaged Vettel on Sky sports.

That was a roasting and a half, but it was more or less deserved tbh. Either Vettel has completely lost the plot, or he is being completely disregarded, which is a bit of a sabotage. I would expect something like that from Ferrari tho, they're the most political team in F1 for lack of a better term.

It reminds me a bit of what Jacques Villeneuve went thru at bar with Richards at the helm in 2003. He was replaced by Sato in the final GP. Foreshadowing perhaps ?

My feeling is that his heart and head is elsewhere and they are just giving him the minimum of support. Maybe just going through the motions until the end of the season.

He was too close behind (raikonnen?) and lost all downforce and had to abort and spun as he had to steer so wildly. Set of tires gone early in race. White one stopper didn’t work. End of race, besides, Ferrari had not enough pace today, leclerc was also not able to keep his P4. Or even stay close. Whilst a few toppers retired.

[PlatinumZealot]

Ah man. Even the doors of the Ferrari motor home aren’t working. Binotto just got stuck outside and had to give up.

Unless they’ve cancelled his accreditation ?

Binnoto swipes card. The speaker announces "Access denied." He swipes again. "Access denied." Goes to call Camilleri... phone out of service... haha

On Vettel... I realize it now. He just cannot drive that car. He is not slow. We know he is faster than Kimi and Gio who have been kicking his butt in their Alfas these last days. So i think it's showing that Vettel just can't get anything out of that car, while Leclerc can. Vettel really needs a stable car to be effective. When he was racing kimi first couple years, Kimi was the one who was spinning. We know kimi can drive without a stable car, but Kimi needs a sharp front end and a predictible throttle input. Vettel can handle throttle, he is good at that... but he just cannot manage steering the back end if it moves a lot.

[Schuttelberg]

might be due to weight difference affecting the cars differently, maybe RB is better on full tanks, and remember they also tried to nurture those softs to be able to make the 1stop work, all 3 of them, Bottas, Ham and Max

on top of that, Max drives very maturely this season and he didn't really have any chance of overtaking Hamilton at the end, really struggled right after the restart and once the tires started to warm up and he was already 1,6-2sec behind Hamilton and Ricci wasn't getting close to him, he also went into conservation mode and just brought the car home with best result possible

that being said, Hamilton seems to be over all better at handling these tires than Bottas, especially once he's in the lead, it is basically game over for the rest, Bottas - not so much

May be, just may be, Bottas is crap. I feel Verstappen would have got him today regardless of the DNF. Max is 14 points within him with all sorts of DNF's.

Bottas has had at least 2 DNFs/non-classifications, including today and the Silverstone puncture (P11).

Can remember Verstappen having at least two. Don't know if it's more.

[Fulcrum]

Ah man. Even the doors of the Ferrari motor home aren’t working. Binotto just got stuck outside and had to give up.

Unless they’ve cancelled his accreditation ?

Binnoto swipes card. The speaker announces "Access denied." He swipes again. "Access denied." Goes to call Camilleri... phone out of service... haha

On Vettel... I realize it now. He just cannot drive that car. He is not slow. We know he is faster than Kimi and Gio who have been kicking his butt in their Alfas these last days. So i think it's showing that Vettel just can't get anything out of that car, while Leclerc can. Vettel really needs a stable car to be effective. When he was racing kimi first couple years, Kimi was the one who was spinning. We know kimi can drive without a stable car, but Kimi needs a sharp front end and a predictible throttle input. Vettel can handle throttle, he is good at that... but he just cannot manage steering the back end if it moves a lot.

If you're assessing the entire period of comparison (2015-2018), yes, definitively faster than Kimi. If you look at the trend in pace differential and overall competitiveness, that was shrinking with each passing year.

From approximately the French GP in 2018, Raikkonen outscored/matched Vettel, largely because of the mistakes that were becoming increasingly evident in Vettel's driving.

My personal opinion is Raikkonen was a relatively stable barometer of overall performance during their time as teammates. Seb simply got worse over time. That trend has only accelerated since Leclerc arrived. Now that Leclerc has positioned the team around himself, and Vettel has been put on the equivalent of gardening leave for drivers, Vettel looks like a clown.

This year is an absolute debacle for Vettel. At this rate, Stroll beating him next year won't be that surprising.

[Sieper]

May be, just may be, Bottas is crap. I feel Verstappen would have got him today regardless of the DNF. Max is 14 points within him with all sorts of DNF's.

Bottas has had at least 2 DNFs/non-classifications, including today and the Silverstone puncture (P11).

Can remember Verstappen having at least two. Don't know if it's more.

Verstappen has 3 DNFs, Austria (1) Monza and Mugello due to PU problems (and then taken out in mugello). Bottas had one, today. The p11 was due to gambling making it to the end on his worn tires at Silverstone. That was no DNF and no technical problem, that was a strategy miscalculation.

[Schuttelberg]

Bottas has had at least 2 DNFs/non-classifications, including today and the Silverstone puncture (P11).

Can remember Verstappen having at least two. Don't know if it's more.

Verstappen has 3 DNFs, Austria (1) Monza and Mugello due to PU problems (and then taken out in mugello). Bottas had one, today. The p11 was due to gambling making it to the end on his worn tires at Silverstone. That was no DNF and no technical problem, that was a strategy miscalculation.

So even if we take Silverstone as an unfortunate episode, reliability corrected Max is ahead in a car at least half a second a lap slower. Probably alongside Vettel, the worst driver of the year and in my opinion the worst driver to have driven the best cars in the last 25 years of watching F1 for me.
Not to mention, his pathetic attitude.

[NathanOlder]

ALB is wreckless

Nah, he has had loads of wrecks.

[NathanOlder]

Can remember Verstappen having at least two. Don't know if it's more.

Verstappen has 3 DNFs, Austria (1) Monza and Mugello due to PU problems (and then taken out in mugello). Bottas had one, today. The p11 was due to gambling making it to the end on his worn tires at Silverstone. That was no DNF and no technical problem, that was a strategy miscalculation.

So even if we take Silverstone as an unfortunate episode, reliability corrected Max is ahead in a car at least half a second a lap slower. Probably alongside Vettel, the worst driver of the year and in my opinion the worst driver to have driven the best cars in the last 25 years of watching F1 for me.
Not to mention, his pathetic attitude.

Bottas smashes Albon. not even in the same league. Bottas would destroy albon in the same car.

[Mogster]

Verstappen has 3 DNFs, Austria (1) Monza and Mugello due to PU problems (and then taken out in mugello). Bottas had one, today. The p11 was due to gambling making it to the end on his worn tires at Silverstone. That was no DNF and no technical problem, that was a strategy miscalculation.

So even if we take Silverstone as an unfortunate episode, reliability corrected Max is ahead in a car at least half a second a lap slower. Probably alongside Vettel, the worst driver of the year and in my opinion the worst driver to have driven the best cars in the last 25 years of watching F1 for me.
Not to mention, his pathetic attitude.

Bottas smashes Albon. not even in the same league. Bottas would destroy albon in the same car.

Agreed. Bottas’s one lap pace has always been impressive. Before Merc he qualified well in the Williams. Race tyre management and fuel usage are his Achilles heel, Toto has confirmed this.

[zibby43]

Bottas has had at least 2 DNFs/non-classifications, including today and the Silverstone puncture (P11).

Can remember Verstappen having at least two. Don't know if it's more.

Verstappen has 3 DNFs, Austria (1) Monza and Mugello due to PU problems (and then taken out in mugello). Bottas had one, today. The p11 was due to gambling making it to the end on his worn tires at Silverstone. That was no DNF and no technical problem, that was a strategy miscalculation.

Calling that a strategy miscalculation is just flat-out hilarious.

It was a tire/track debris problem. And Verstappen was almost bitten by it too, considering his tire was riddled with cuts.

And his stop in that race was no strategy masterstroke. He was about 15 years behind, and had the time/space.

[214270]

About BOT. He stopped fairly early due to the flat spot, is it safe to say he would’ve boxed before the SC had he not retired?

If that’s the case, he might’ve ended the race quite far back all things considered.

[Sieper]

Can remember Verstappen having at least two. Don't know if it's more.

Verstappen has 3 DNFs, Austria (1) Monza and Mugello due to PU problems (and then taken out in mugello). Bottas had one, today. The p11 was due to gambling making it to the end on his worn tires at Silverstone. That was no DNF and no technical problem, that was a strategy miscalculation.

Calling that a strategy miscalculation is just flat-out hilarious.

It was a tire/track debris problem. And Verstappen was almost bitten by it too, considering his tire was riddled with cuts.

And his stop in that race was no strategy masterstroke. He was about 15 years behind, and had the time/space.

However way you try to turn it. Point 1 it was not a DNF, he finished. Point 2 it was not a technical failure he could do nothing for (like todays issue that caused him to retire actually was) it was either bad luck due to debris or just running out of tire. Which is likely the true reason, I think that as Lewis had the exact same issue. But in his last lap. You cannot and mustnot try to sell it as a DNF. Bottas has had one DNF this season to which he was innocent. Max 3.

[zibby43]

Verstappen has 3 DNFs, Austria (1) Monza and Mugello due to PU problems (and then taken out in mugello). Bottas had one, today. The p11 was due to gambling making it to the end on his worn tires at Silverstone. That was no DNF and no technical problem, that was a strategy miscalculation.

Calling that a strategy miscalculation is just flat-out hilarious.

It was a tire/track debris problem. And Verstappen was almost bitten by it too, considering his tire was riddled with cuts.

And his stop in that race was no strategy masterstroke. He was about 15 years behind, and had the time/space.

However way you try to turn it. Point 1 it was not a DNF, he finished. Point 2 it was not a technical failure he could do nothing for (like todays issue that caused him to retire actually was) it was either bad luck due to debris or just running out of tire. Which is likely to true reason, Lewis had the exact same issue. But in his last lap. You cannot and mustnot try to sell it as a DNF. Bottas has had one DNF this season to which he was innocent. Max 3.

That’s why I said DNF/non-top 10 classification.

PU failures and tire failures go in the same category for me - a combination of bad luck and unreliability.

It was lucky for Bottas to even get to P11 that day, but P11 or DNF doesn’t matter. The results are the same - 0 points. And whether it be via engine software or track debris, it’s not the driver’s fault.

We don’t have to do mental gymnastics to pump up Max here. I agree on one thing, he has 1 more unlucky outing than Bottas this year. 3 to 2.