Silly Season 2020/2021 (starting with silliness in 2019)

[DChemTech]

now a days the F1 is for millionaire's son for their timepass.

You could say that completes a circle - autoracing started as a rich man's hobby after all.

[Phil]

If you're part of the Mercedes academy... well, screwed.

How come? Both Ocon and Russel are still driving in F1, are they not? What more do you want?

I can only think of RedBull who has done more for bringing talents into F1, although they have also arguably shattered some [F1] careers on the way too. And from that very long list of talents that they've brought into F1, only the very fewest have actually been promoted to a race winning seat (the RedBull seat, that is) - that being Riccardo, Gasly, Albon and Kvyat. But did they have the same level of opportunities as their number 1 driver at the time? With the exception of Riccardo, I'm not that sure.

Also, compared to the RedBull, Mercedes actually has to finance their drivers in their customer teams, as they don't have the 'luxury' of holding two teams. They don't have direct control over the seats at Williams nor do they at Racing-Point.

With all respect to Russels achievement (against arguably very weak team-mates) in that Williams - where does this belief come from that he deserves a seat at Mercedes after 2 seasons?

Last I checked, Russel (as any other driver) was driving for and employed by his team Mercedes. Not the other way around.

[nzjrs]

I guess it'll be Perez & Latifi for Williams since the new owners want money to rebuild the team and then sell to profit. Shame for Russell but hopefully frees him up from a Merc contract to be available to any team. Would love to see a VER/RUS team @ RB!

That's an interesting thought. Do RB have anything to bargain with that could convince Mercedes to give them Russel?

Ring, Ring. Hello. Hi Toto its Helmut.
Oh hi, what can I do for you?
Well, it's about this engine freeze thing. I understand you are trying to place one of your drivers?

Vote comes out tomorrow I think, so this is preliminary, but Mercedes seems to support the engine freeze. That seems backwards if it was a negotiating position tied to giving RB Russel?

[Espresso]

now a days the F1 is for millionaire's son for their timepass.

You could say that completes a circle - autoracing started as a rich man's hobby after all.

Which is to say, that Red Bull...
1. burns through a lot of young drivers
2. gives them a fighting chance
2. is not afraid to put young drivers to a real life test in F1 where they have to prove themselves.

Love it or hate it, but they initiated this fresh wind of fresh young drivers. Making more clear the discrepancy between a bought F1 seat and an earned F1 seat....

And whether your opinion is 'shattered a career' or 'not ready for F1' is another discussion. Without Red Bull none of them would have a taste (and money) of a racing career.

...P.S. I don't have a grudge at paid seats as long as the pilot can really drive....

[El Scorchio]

No way will Russell go to RBR. Max won't want him there. Too much of a potential threat. Also Russell will have seen how it's worked out for the others they have got in to be the wingman and realise it's not going to be good for his career.

Let's be clear, while Max is there they will continue to build the team around him only. Therefore I imagine it'll be Hulkenberg. They will want a good solid driver who isn't going to upset the apple cart, will know his role, and will support and help Max while he's in races, and pick up as many points as possible when he's not. They need a 'safe pair of hands'.

Perez will want a straight fight a la Ricciardo, which will be detrimental to the team's goal and any young driver coming in will also want the same. They would have to understand the odds are not in their favour and they are not going to be the number 1 driver unless they 'pull a Leclerc' on Max, or Max leaves.

[El Scorchio]

That's an interesting thought. Do RB have anything to bargain with that could convince Mercedes to give them Russel?

Ring, Ring. Hello. Hi Toto its Helmut.
Oh hi, what can I do for you?
Well, it's about this engine freeze thing. I understand you are trying to place one of your drivers?

Vote comes out tomorrow I think, so this is preliminary, but Mercedes seems to support the engine freeze. That seems backwards if it was a negotiating position tied to giving RB Russel?

Not surprised Mercedes support an engine freeze- it basically guarantees more success for them. It does make sense as a cost cutting measure but there is no way Ferrari will agree to it and what the red team wants, they usually get.

[Racer X]

Ring, Ring. Hello. Hi Toto its Helmut.
Oh hi, what can I do for you?
Well, it's about this engine freeze thing. I understand you are trying to place one of your drivers?

Vote comes out tomorrow I think, so this is preliminary, but Mercedes seems to support the engine freeze. That seems backwards if it was a negotiating position tied to giving RB Russel?

Not surprised Mercedes support an engine freeze- it basically guarantees more success for them. It does make sense as a cost cutting measure but there is no way Ferrari will agree to it and what the red team wants, they usually get.

Yup If Mercedes engine freeze it helps them tie down Ferrari. It might have something to do with George but I'm pretty sure it has more to do with Holding Ferrari down. Also Renault isn't too great so it will only make it so you only have to worry about RedBull. Honda is good but it's not a Challenge.

[El Scorchio]

Vote comes out tomorrow I think, so this is preliminary, but Mercedes seems to support the engine freeze. That seems backwards if it was a negotiating position tied to giving RB Russel?

Not surprised Mercedes support an engine freeze- it basically guarantees more success for them. It does make sense as a cost cutting measure but there is no way Ferrari will agree to it and what the red team wants, they usually get.

Yup If Mercedes engine freeze it helps them tie down Ferrari. It might have something to do with George but I'm pretty sure it has more to do with Holding Ferrari down. Also Renault isn't too great so it will only make it so you only have to worry about RedBull. Honda is good but it's not a Challenge.

Totally agree- unless Honda (or indeed another manufacturer) has some sort of golden bullet to be released right before the freeze takes place! Then again Mercedes could likely also be sitting on a couple of their own.

I don't really see why it's in RBR's interests (costs aside) to want a freeze unless there is an aforementioned bullet, or they think that if there is a freeze they have a shot at overhauling Mercedes through developing the other aspects of the car comparatively better.

Yet another fascinating situation!

[nzjrs]

No way will Russell go to RBR. Max won't want him there. Too much of a potential threat. Also Russell will have seen how it's worked out for the others they have got in to be the wingman and realise it's not going to be good for his career.

I imaging Max would be confident in beating Russel, and then having done so, he could go and eat his lunch at Mercedes when he is out of contract at RBR

But yeah, I think perez/hulk is probably a better bet, unless there is a political angle that a Russel deal could have for RBR.

[Big Tea]

That's an interesting thought. Do RB have anything to bargain with that could convince Mercedes to give them Russel?

Ring, Ring. Hello. Hi Toto its Helmut.
Oh hi, what can I do for you?
Well, it's about this engine freeze thing. I understand you are trying to place one of your drivers?

Vote comes out tomorrow I think, so this is preliminary, but Mercedes seems to support the engine freeze. That seems backwards if it was a negotiating position tied to giving RB Russel?

Maybe lend? Then get him back when required?

[El Scorchio]

No way will Russell go to RBR. Max won't want him there. Too much of a potential threat. Also Russell will have seen how it's worked out for the others they have got in to be the wingman and realise it's not going to be good for his career.

I imaging Max would be confident in beating Russel, and then having done so, he could go and eat his lunch at Mercedes when he is out of contract at RBR

But yeah, I think perez/hulk is probably a better bet, unless there is a political angle that a Russel deal could have for RBR.

Oh, I imagine Max is confident of beating anyone. (As all the drivers on the grid should be) But of course at RBR he has a lot going in his favour to help him beat whoever the other driver will be. The other driver has to know they are there to support Max rather than race against him, because that's just how the team is set up to work. They are focused on one driver. Hulkenberg is almost the perfect choice for the second seat.

But I can genuinely see a future where Max never gets to drive for Mercedes. He might have to sit in a Red Bull watching Russell win multiple championships, even if he does fancy himself as the superior driver.

[Racer X]

Maybe lend? Then get him back when required?

Lend!? If RedBull take George and he turns out a good or great driver they will keep him. Mercedes knows this so if George goes to RedBull he stays there.

They wont help develop their competition.

[DChemTech]

If you're part of the Mercedes academy... well, screwed.

How come? Both Ocon and Russel are still driving in F1, are they not? What more do you want?

I can only think of RedBull who has done more for bringing talents into F1, although they have also arguably shattered some [F1] careers on the way too. And from that very long list of talents that they've brought into F1, only the very fewest have actually been promoted to a race winning seat (the RedBull seat, that is) - that being Riccardo, Gasly, Albon and Kvyat. But did they have the same level of opportunities as their number 1 driver at the time? With the exception of Riccardo, I'm not that sure.

Also, compared to the RedBull, Mercedes actually has to finance their drivers in their customer teams, as they don't have the 'luxury' of holding two teams. They don't have direct control over the seats at Williams nor do they at Racing-Point.

With all respect to Russels achievement (against arguably very weak team-mates) in that Williams - where does this belief come from that he deserves a seat at Mercedes after 2 seasons?

Last I checked, Russel (as any other driver) was driving for and employed by his team Mercedes. Not the other way around.

Of course, I stated it a bit in deliberately provocative terms. Being part of those academies and the funding that comes with it is still a good way into F1 as a whole. So I mean particularly in terms of 'if you are part of the academy of team X, what are the odds you will actually drive in F1 for team X'

[DChemTech]

No way will Russell go to RBR. Max won't want him there. Too much of a potential threat. Also Russell will have seen how it's worked out for the others they have got in to be the wingman and realise it's not going to be good for his career.

I imaging Max would be confident in beating Russel, and then having done so, he could go and eat his lunch at Mercedes when he is out of contract at RBR

But yeah, I think perez/hulk is probably a better bet, unless there is a political angle that a Russel deal could have for RBR.

Oh, I imagine Max is confident of beating anyone. (As all the drivers on the grid should be) But of course at RBR he has a lot going in his favour to help him beat whoever the other driver will be. The other driver has to know they are there to support Max rather than race against him, because that's just how the team is set up to work. They are focused on one driver. Hulkenberg is almost the perfect choice for the second seat.

But I can genuinely see a future where Max never gets to drive for Mercedes. He might have to sit in a Red Bull watching Russell win multiple championships, even if he does fancy himself as the superior driver.

Whether Max ever driving for Mercedes is of relevance for his scorings is also an open question. Current dominance is no guarantee for future results, in light of upcoming regulation changes. Let's see what the future brings in that respect. But indeed, there is a possibility that Max will never, or only briefly, drive for a championship-capable team. A fate that was bestowed upon Alonso, Montoya and others before them... such is life.

[PlatinumZealot]

Not surprised Mercedes support an engine freeze- it basically guarantees more success for them. It does make sense as a cost cutting measure but there is no way Ferrari will agree to it and what the red team wants, they usually get.

Yup If Mercedes engine freeze it helps them tie down Ferrari. It might have something to do with George but I'm pretty sure it has more to do with Holding Ferrari down. Also Renault isn't too great so it will only make it so you only have to worry about RedBull. Honda is good but it's not a Challenge.

Totally agree- unless Honda (or indeed another manufacturer) has some sort of golden bullet to be released right before the freeze takes place! Then again Mercedes could likely also be sitting on a couple of their own.

I don't really see why it's in RBR's interests (costs aside) to want a freeze unless there is an aforementioned bullet, or they think that if there is a freeze they have a shot at overhauling Mercedes through developing the other aspects of the car comparatively better.

Yet another fascinating situation!

They want the freeze because the Honda engine will get left behind as the other engines get deleveloped. Their plan is to make a super engine before 2022 and hope that the rules will have everyone else frozen by then.