Driver styles/preferences

[raymondu999]

I think Vettel’s style makes the rear looser. I think hes a hard trail braker. If you watched his laps on hard braking circuits, you can see the nose point so much better in those corners with heavy braking entries.

Case in point:
https://youtu.be/VN76TfXYADI

As an aside - you can also see what Jolle was saying in the T5/6 chicane - before hitting the T5 apex he’s already turning to focus on T6. Also in the tight uphill chicane (is it T8/9?) while he is increasing left lock for the kink in the corner his head is already looking for the right hand apex.

Anyways back to my point. If you see the main issues between Vettel and Leclerc this year for example it’s always been on the entry (more or less) when Vettel has these snaps. I think Lec brakes smoother and less of his corner is trail-transitioning into full corner grip, which keeps the snap locked up.

Vettel’s RB years I think they loosened the rear suspension (softer ARB, etc?) and allowed Vettel’s heavy trail braking to break into an induced roll-oversteer situation, and then when this helped the car change direction better, Vettel slammed the throttle and the added downforce from the blown floor squashed out whatever was left of a slide.

So I typed this out in Silly Season, thought this would be a good add to this thread

[raymondu999]

Kubica's style was Alonso on steroids in his apex, forceful and aggressive and last season was like seeing a footballer that used to be fast and be able to just outrun everybody and just can't anymore.

Kubica’s style was always massively “intense” - it’s like he was on steroids or had too much coffee or something. It looked extremely stamina draining. Case in point:

[JordanMugen]

What i remember from Barnard is that Schumacher liked the V12 from 95 more than the V10 that they would use for 96, mainly because the V12 had more aggressive engine braking and it helped kick the rear end out, something MS enjoyed and Barnard wanted to get rid of...
Barnard had some silly logic that Michael losing to Rosberg proved him right...

If only Ferrari kept the V12 until it was banned in 2001 (2000?). Such a shame.

[Jolle]

What i remember from Barnard is that Schumacher liked the V12 from 95 more than the V10 that they would use for 96, mainly because the V12 had more aggressive engine braking and it helped kick the rear end out, something MS enjoyed and Barnard wanted to get rid of...
Barnard had some silly logic that Michael losing to Rosberg proved him right...

If only Ferrari kept the V12 until it was banned in 2001 (2000?). Such a shame.

Nothing prevented Ferrari to use a V12 after Bernard left... so.. nor Todt, Brawn or Byrne thought the V12 was a better solution then the V10.

[raymondu999]

A very eloquent excerpt from Mark Hughes’ article

Source - https://the-race.com/formula-1/mark-hug ... ow-joined/

Here’s how John Barnard, having worked extensively with Prost, described testing with Schumacher at Ferrari for the first time: “He’d lift the throttle to force the car into oversteer and then press it again to compensate with understeer. It really was amazing but you need big balls to drive that way. It just didn’t seem right to me.” He was doing this at a frequency that engineers didn’t believe possible until more advanced telemetry was later able to confirm it.

“It was the right way to drive,” states Eddie Irvine, his team-mate of four years. “He’d be off the throttle until the apex, carrying in incredible speed. Then he’d be working the throttle like crazy, balancing the car on it, even in the high-speed corners. To be able to do that to that degree was just insane.”

It was all about balancing entry and exit speeds and how long the straight after the corner was. When he was at Benetton he had the team rig up three-speed displays so that he could monitor and freeze his mid-corner minimum and his speed on the following straight as well as his current speed. In this way, he worked out by trial and error the ultimate approach.

European Grand Prix Jerez (esp) 14 16 10 1994

“It’s much easier and more repeatable for most to just be point and squirt,” explains Irvine. “You get on the power earlier and it gets you speed down the straight.”

But Schumacher wanted to combine absolutely on-the-edge entry speed – which prevented an early power application – with competitive exit speed. Hence the manipulation of the throttle. The optimum would obviously vary from corner to corner – and he’d adapt. He worked at it so long that it became natural to him and he no longer needed the extra instrumentation.

[PlatinumZealot]

Vettel dismisses that SF1000 doesn't suit his driving style.


The common sense people among us knew this all along. Vettel's DNA has been in these Ferraris since 2015.

Vettel also views himself as an adaptable driver.

So two myths busted!

Basically, Charles is just quicker.

https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/arti ... yNsDh.html

Aston Martin-bound Vettel, however, dismissed the idea that the Ferrari SF1000 didn’t suit his style, saying that it was his job to adapt to the car’s traits – and adding that that was something he’d always managed to do in his career to date.

“So far in my racing life, I've always been able to extract the maximum,” he said. “This year seems a bit different but there's no other choice than working on myself and working on the car.

“I don't think it's down to the way the car is handling, I think you always have to adapt,” he added. “I think that's true in go karts all the way to Formula 1, and it's something that normally has never been a problem. But clearly, as I said, I'm missing something this year and I'm trying everything I can to get on top of it.”

[raymondu999]

I don’t think this is the right topic for what you’ve posted - this is more a compare/contrast thread for driving styles and their nuances.

But tbh - I think this then rather raises the question instead, whether Vettel is as adaptable as he thinks

[tangodjango]

As McLaren’s test driver from 2007-9, De la Rosa witnessed Hamilton’s abilities closer than most. Having worked with both, he rates Hamilton and Alonso as the two best drivers he has ever seen first hand - including Schumacher.

Where they differentiate themselves from the rest, he says, is in the entry phase of a corner.

“Where they are special, Lewis and Fernando, is how much speed they can run into the apex and still have a decent exit speed,” he says. “It is very easy to say; it is very difficult to do.

“Most drivers, over one lap, when the rear tyres are at their peak grip, can do that. So if you look at [Hamilton’s current Mercedes team-mate Valtteri] Bottas, for example, over one lap many times he is matching Lewis.

“The problem comes when the rear tyres drop off. That’s when they are so much better than the rest. They still keep the speed going in.”
Lowe says an ability to control his car in this way not only “makes you go faster in the moment, but also allows you to set the car up to be nearer the limit, so it is inherently quicker”.

These skills also explain why Hamilton is often so much more effective in races than Bottas, when it comes to key techniques such as following another car closely, overtaking or keeping tyres in optimum condition.

“Some drivers cannot get that close to the car in front,” De la Rosa says. "But Lewis and Fernando, always, when they’re behind they’re nearly touching the gearbox.

“You can see they are following in a different manner, in an aggressive manner, in a way that is not comfortable at all for the car in front.

“You lose a lot of grip when you are following - especially with these modern F1 cars - but this type of driver knows how to compensate by balancing with speed and brakes.

“It doesn’t really matter if the car is understeering or oversteering, they will sort the balance out with their feeling. They don’t know why they are doing it. They just know it’s faster. And that’s all talent - pure, raw talent.”

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/extra/c1nx5 ... lton-story

[PlatinumZealot]

So they are not as rear tyre limited as other drivers are. Make sense.

[raymondu999]

I've been watching this and to me I think Mick has quite a different approach to his dad. His dad was always on edge it seemed with micro-corrections. Mick seems to favor lower minimum speeds; kind of get the car rotated a lot at the apex then have a flatter run into the corner.

[PlatinumZealot]

Totally differnt cars.

[PlatinumZealot]

Max Verstappen likes front end. Copious amounts that seem unlreal to his teammates, even for Albon who loves oversteery cars.

https://www.planetf1.com/news/max-verst ... e-qualify/

This explains why Checo is having a hard time when updgrades are made.

[Zynerji]

Max Verstappen likes front end. Copious amounts that seem unlreal to his teammates, even for Albon who loves oversteery cars.

https://www.planetf1.com/news/max-verst ... e-qualify/

This explains why Checo is having a hard time when updgrades are made.

They should have signed Kimi instead of Checo then!

[Big Tea]

Max Verstappen likes front end. Copious amounts that seem unlreal to his teammates, even for Albon who loves oversteery cars.

https://www.planetf1.com/news/max-verst ... e-qualify/

This explains why Checo is having a hard time when updgrades are made.

I have to wonder, bach a quite few races ago when Checo was 'up there' with max, he must have been, if not fine then at least capable with the car, so why not let him continue with that car?

Make alterations where it is possible without destroying the balance, but leave anything drastic to Max car only.
I accept the drive is to make the car capable of going faster, but if the driver is not then capable of hitting that curve, is it a sensible thing to do?

[Just_a_fan]

Max Verstappen likes front end. Copious amounts that seem unlreal to his teammates, even for Albon who loves oversteery cars.

https://www.planetf1.com/news/max-verst ... e-qualify/

This explains why Checo is having a hard time when updgrades are made.

Having a massively responsive front end is not the same as "an oversteery car". Max wants a car that responds to the steering inputs immediately, yes, but he still wants the rear end to stay under control. No F1 driver wants oversteer - it's slow, for a start, and risks a spin/accident.

Max just wants the front to do exactly what he wants when he wants it. He doesn't want any understeer or even delay in the front end.