2020 Emilia Romagna Grand Prix - Imola, Oct 31 - Nov 01

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zibby43
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Re: 2020 Emilia Romagna Grand Prix - Imola, Oct 31 - Nov 01

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Phil wrote:
31 Oct 2020, 17:50
Just_a_fan wrote:
31 Oct 2020, 15:50
George Russell putting the Williams in to Q2. And people hereabouts still doubt the lad has talent.
Or the car is Q2 worthy, Latifi just cant drive it. No disrespect of Russel, but all the result shows is that one driver can drive that car, the other cant. Not unlike the situation at Ferrari or RedBull by the way.
And I mean no disrespect when I say that you’d be the only one in the paddock with that opinion.

The Williams is an awful car, and Russell has some of the best raw speed, if not the best, out of all the young drivers.

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NathanOlder
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Re: 2020 Emilia Romagna Grand Prix - Imola, Oct 31 - Nov 01

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Yeah I agree. It's something he can show in qualifying where he can put it on the edge, but in a race he would probably crash too often so he has to back it off a little and thats when Haas, Alfa and Vettel get him.
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Big Tea
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Re: 2020 Emilia Romagna Grand Prix - Imola, Oct 31 - Nov 01

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NathanOlder wrote:
31 Oct 2020, 19:54
Yeah I agree. It's something he can show in qualifying where he can put it on the edge, but in a race he would probably crash too often so he has to back it off a little and thats when Haas, Alfa and Vettel get him.
This would probably balance out by First not having to be son on the edge and also by 'not my race' fights with Haas and Alfa. They fight Williams because its for real. If he was in say a Merc, they would step politely aside rather than lose time.
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holeindalip
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Re: 2020 Emilia Romagna Grand Prix - Imola, Oct 31 - Nov 01

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NathanOlder wrote:
31 Oct 2020, 19:54
Yeah I agree. It's something he can show in qualifying where he can put it on the edge, but in a race he would probably crash too often so he has to back it off a little and thats when Haas, Alfa and Vettel get him.
It’s been known that the Williams isn’t bad in qualy, but in race trim around other cars it’s very difficult to drive...

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Phil
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Re: 2020 Emilia Romagna Grand Prix - Imola, Oct 31 - Nov 01

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zibby43 wrote:
31 Oct 2020, 19:40
And I mean no disrespect when I say that you’d be the only one in the paddock with that opinion.
One is speculation, the other is not. It’s not possible to outperform the car. Some drivers may get closer, while others dont, some cars may be more difficult to drive, but in reality, what you are seeing is just one driver driving a lot better than the other. And you may be underestimating the Williams based on its past performances. What you however may not be considering is that this year, the Ferrari engine has taken a huge step back... guess which cars are now just as bad as a result? Yes, both Ferrari powered customer teams. While the Williams with all its fault has the best engine in its rear...

Seriously, Russel may be good, but there is no evidence he is great. Certainly not based on anything othee than hyperbole over his performance against... Kubica and Latifi. So very impressive...
Not for nothing, Rosberg's Championship is the only thing that lends credibility to Hamilton's recent success. Otherwise, he'd just be the guy who's had the best car. — bhall II
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NathanOlder
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Re: 2020 Emilia Romagna Grand Prix - Imola, Oct 31 - Nov 01

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Phil wrote:
31 Oct 2020, 21:42
zibby43 wrote:
31 Oct 2020, 19:40
And I mean no disrespect when I say that you’d be the only one in the paddock with that opinion.
One is speculation, the other is not. It’s not possible to outperform the car. Some drivers may get closer, while others dont, some cars may be more difficult to drive, but in reality, what you are seeing is just one driver driving a lot better than the other. And you may be underestimating the Williams based on its past performances. What you however may not be considering is that this year, the Ferrari engine has taken a huge step back... guess which cars are now just as bad as a result? Yes, both Ferrari powered customer teams. While the Williams with all its fault has the best engine in its rear...

Seriously, Russel may be good, but there is no evidence he is great. Certainly not based on anything othee than hyperbole over his performance against... Kubica and Latifi. So very impressive...
His formula 3 and formula 2 performances are beaten by no one on the grid. He won both F3 and F2 at his first attempt, He had the same number of wins as Leclerc at F2 level but more podiums. both having more than Lewis. He won more races in F3 than Leclerc. So on his rise to F1 he has been better than anyone currently in F1. Now add to that he has impressed in F1, and out qualified his team mate every race, the pre F1 hype is definitely continuing. He looks almost unstoppable. I wish he got the Aston Martin seat in 2021 but unfortunately we will have to wait until 2022 unless Williams improve again relative to the others. George Russell is the real deal. He will be Lewis Hamiltons replacement for sure.
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Just_a_fan
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Re: 2020 Emilia Romagna Grand Prix - Imola, Oct 31 - Nov 01

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Phil wrote:
31 Oct 2020, 17:50
Just_a_fan wrote:
31 Oct 2020, 15:50
George Russell putting the Williams in to Q2. And people hereabouts still doubt the lad has talent.
Or the car is Q2 worthy, Latifi just cant drive it. No disrespect of Russel, but all the result shows is that one driver can drive that car, the other cant. Not unlike the situation at Ferrari or RedBull by the way.
Albion and Vettel are derided because their team mates are much better than them. Russel!, on the other hand, is only good because his team mate's rubbish.

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Hammerfist
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Re: 2020 Emilia Romagna Grand Prix - Imola, Oct 31 - Nov 01

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Phil wrote:
31 Oct 2020, 21:42
zibby43 wrote:
31 Oct 2020, 19:40
And I mean no disrespect when I say that you’d be the only one in the paddock with that opinion.
One is speculation, the other is not. It’s not possible to outperform the car. Some drivers may get closer, while others dont, some cars may be more difficult to drive, but in reality, what you are seeing is just one driver driving a lot better than the other. And you may be underestimating the Williams based on its past performances. What you however may not be considering is that this year, the Ferrari engine has taken a huge step back... guess which cars are now just as bad as a result? Yes, both Ferrari powered customer teams. While the Williams with all its fault has the best engine in its rear...

Seriously, Russel may be good, but there is no evidence he is great. Certainly not based on anything othee than hyperbole over his performance against... Kubica and Latifi. So very impressive...
Yeah russell strikes me as a qualifying expert but he does not impress in the races. Latifi has finished ahead of him a couple times i believe and usually their race pace is similar. He also almost never makes up positions at the start of races. In fact he normally loses quite a bit at starts. To me the guy still has a lot to learn and its obvious. There is definitely a lack of race craft.

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AMG.Tzan
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Re: 2020 Emilia Romagna Grand Prix - Imola, Oct 31 - Nov 01

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Gasly just 3 tenths off mama Red Bull with an Alpha Tauri!

I hope Gasly gets a good start and overtakes Verstapen! Not that it would prove anything or that it will last for long...but Imola is tight and it might be a great battle for some laps!
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El Scorchio
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Re: 2020 Emilia Romagna Grand Prix - Imola, Oct 31 - Nov 01

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It’s clearly the worst car on the grid which he is getting LeClerc type results out of on saturdays. All he can do is go backwards or at a pinch hold position on Sundays.

Just_a_fan
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Re: 2020 Emilia Romagna Grand Prix - Imola, Oct 31 - Nov 01

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Hammerfist wrote:
31 Oct 2020, 22:10
Phil wrote:
31 Oct 2020, 21:42
zibby43 wrote:
31 Oct 2020, 19:40
And I mean no disrespect when I say that you’d be the only one in the paddock with that opinion.
One is speculation, the other is not. It’s not possible to outperform the car. Some drivers may get closer, while others dont, some cars may be more difficult to drive, but in reality, what you are seeing is just one driver driving a lot better than the other. And you may be underestimating the Williams based on its past performances. What you however may not be considering is that this year, the Ferrari engine has taken a huge step back... guess which cars are now just as bad as a result? Yes, both Ferrari powered customer teams. While the Williams with all its fault has the best engine in its rear...

Seriously, Russel may be good, but there is no evidence he is great. Certainly not based on anything othee than hyperbole over his performance against... Kubica and Latifi. So very impressive...
Yeah russell strikes me as a qualifying expert but he does not impress in the races. Latifi has finished ahead of him a couple times i believe and usually their race pace is similar. He also almost never makes up positions at the start of races. In fact he normally loses quite a bit at starts. To me the guy still has a lot to learn and its obvious. There is definitely a lack of race craft.
Put Russell in the RedBull and Max would be whining race after race. Russell is Max's level.
If you are more fortunate than others, build a larger table not a taller fence.

Hammerfist
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Re: 2020 Emilia Romagna Grand Prix - Imola, Oct 31 - Nov 01

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Just_a_fan wrote:
31 Oct 2020, 22:34
Hammerfist wrote:
31 Oct 2020, 22:10
Phil wrote:
31 Oct 2020, 21:42


One is speculation, the other is not. It’s not possible to outperform the car. Some drivers may get closer, while others dont, some cars may be more difficult to drive, but in reality, what you are seeing is just one driver driving a lot better than the other. And you may be underestimating the Williams based on its past performances. What you however may not be considering is that this year, the Ferrari engine has taken a huge step back... guess which cars are now just as bad as a result? Yes, both Ferrari powered customer teams. While the Williams with all its fault has the best engine in its rear...

Seriously, Russel may be good, but there is no evidence he is great. Certainly not based on anything othee than hyperbole over his performance against... Kubica and Latifi. So very impressive...
Yeah russell strikes me as a qualifying expert but he does not impress in the races. Latifi has finished ahead of him a couple times i believe and usually their race pace is similar. He also almost never makes up positions at the start of races. In fact he normally loses quite a bit at starts. To me the guy still has a lot to learn and its obvious. There is definitely a lack of race craft.
Put Russell in the RedBull and Max would be whining race after race. Russell is Max's level.

Honestly if he cant finish ahead of latifi 100 percent of the time he wont want any part of max who hasnt lost a race to a teammate fair and square since Ricciardo was there.

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Wouter
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Re: 2020 Emilia Romagna Grand Prix - Imola, Oct 31 - Nov 01

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Just_a_fan wrote:
31 Oct 2020, 22:34
Put Russell in the RedBull and Max would be whining race after race. Russell is Max's level.

Surely you don't believe that yourself ?!

" Max would be whining race after race. :lol: Russell is Max's level." :wtf:
The Power of Dreams!

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Phil
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Re: 2020 Emilia Romagna Grand Prix - Imola, Oct 31 - Nov 01

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Just_a_fan wrote:
31 Oct 2020, 22:34
Put Russell in the RedBull and Max would be whining race after race. Russell is Max's level.
I find the Russel hype unfounded. So he has been great in F3 and F2. This ain’t F2 or F3. Plenty of young prospects come into F1 with an impressive resumé and then fail F1. Again i’m not suggesting Russel isnt good. He clearly is. But his hype is unfounded until he has real competition and gets to show his talent against someone who is a somewhat of a benchmark. Max has proven himself against Ricciardo who is somewhat of a known quantity because he raced against Vettel. Same applies to Leclerc, although i’d argue that this year to is clearly distorting the picture. Leclerc/Seb were evenly matched and the fight in qualifIng rather close last year - this year it aint.

Back to Russel; if you want to elevate him to Max’s or Hamilton’s level cause he has been consistently beating a nobody and a has been in a car that aint half bad (compared to the Alfa and Haas), well, i guess carry on... i’d rather wait for some more representative data.
Not for nothing, Rosberg's Championship is the only thing that lends credibility to Hamilton's recent success. Otherwise, he'd just be the guy who's had the best car. — bhall II
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El Scorchio
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Re: 2020 Emilia Romagna Grand Prix - Imola, Oct 31 - Nov 01

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Time will tell. And I think it will tell a rather favourable tale for Russell.

And If Alonso says he’s that good, then that’s a pretty strong endorsement from someone who ought to know a thing or two.