2020 Emilia Romagna Grand Prix - Imola, Oct 31 - Nov 01

[Big Tea]

Put Russell in the RedBull and Max would be whining race after race. Russell is Max's level.

Surely you don't believe that yourself ?!

" Max would be whining race after race. Russell is Max's level."

I don't think it is about the driver, I think it as about the car. Some one with a particular talent can run on ice, his friend cant. Put them both on sand and it will be different.

[zibby43]

Put Russell in the RedBull and Max would be whining race after race. Russell is Max's level.

I find the Russel hype unfounded. So he has been great in F3 and F2. This ain’t F2 or F3. Plenty of young prospects come into F1 with an impressive resumé and then fail F1. Again i’m not suggesting Russel isnt good. He clearly is. But his hype is unfounded until he has real competition and gets to show his talent against someone who is a somewhat of a benchmark. Max has proven himself against Ricciardo who is somewhat of a known quantity because he raced against Vettel. Same applies to Leclerc, although i’d argue that this year to is clearly distorting the picture. Leclerc/Seb were evenly matched and the fight in qualifIng rather close last year - this year it aint.

Back to Russel; if you want to elevate him to Max’s or Hamilton’s level cause he has been consistently beating a nobody and a has been in a car that aint half bad (compared to the Alfa and Haas), well, i guess carry on... i’d rather wait for some more representative data.

He beat Albon and Norris in the F2 championship in 2018. So the lower category success isn't about the success in and of itself, it is also about who he competed against and beat in equal machinery.

Norris and Albon fortunately have found themselves in competitive cars.

The engineers in the paddock have access have access to Russell's telemetry. And everyone has an extremely high opinion of him.

"I think there are very talented drivers now in Formula One," Alonso told Sky Sports. "They all came with very nice preparation as well with driver academies that build the performance and the talent, helping them from a very young age. Now they are doing their job.

"From all of them, George Russell is the one that surprises me every weekend. How he's driving the Williams. Zero mistakes. I'm really surprised about his natural speed.

"So if I have to say one name, Russell for the future is going to be my pick."

https://www.espn.com/f1/story/_/id/3022 ... tar-future

Is Russell perfect yet? No. He has some things he can improve on in the race, but when the entire paddock has nothing but positive things to say when they know the true pace of all the cars, which drivers are over-achieving relative to the equipment, and he's drawing praise like that from one of the greatest drivers of this generation, I don't think it's fair to say anyone is "overhyping" Russell.

Finally, to call the Williams a car that "ain't half bad" . . . I don't know how you're reaching that conclusion.

[zibby43]

His formula 3 and formula 2 performances are beaten by no one on the grid. He won both F3 and F2 at his first attempt, He had the same number of wins as Leclerc at F2 level but more podiums. both having more than Lewis. He won more races in F3 than Leclerc. So on his rise to F1 he has been better than anyone currently in F1. Now add to that he has impressed in F1, and out qualified his team mate every race, the pre F1 hype is definitely continuing. He looks almost unstoppable. I wish he got the Aston Martin seat in 2021 but unfortunately we will have to wait until 2022 unless Williams improve again relative to the others. George Russell is the real deal. He will be Lewis Hamiltons replacement for sure.

+1

I was just thinking about this the other day. I think Russell will be the eventual Hamilton replacement, as opposed to seeing a Hamilton/Russell pairing.

[NathanOlder]

His formula 3 and formula 2 performances are beaten by no one on the grid. He won both F3 and F2 at his first attempt, He had the same number of wins as Leclerc at F2 level but more podiums. both having more than Lewis. He won more races in F3 than Leclerc. So on his rise to F1 he has been better than anyone currently in F1. Now add to that he has impressed in F1, and out qualified his team mate every race, the pre F1 hype is definitely continuing. He looks almost unstoppable. I wish he got the Aston Martin seat in 2021 but unfortunately we will have to wait until 2022 unless Williams improve again relative to the others. George Russell is the real deal. He will be Lewis Hamiltons replacement for sure.

+1

I was just thinking about this the other day. I think Russell will be the eventual Hamilton replacement, as opposed to seeing a Hamilton/Russell pairing.

eah, although surely Mercedes will want them side by side for 1 year, for Hamilton to pass on anything he can to George. Lewis seems the type of guy that will help George develop even further and it will also help Mercedes who Lewis does give the impression he is forever in their debt.

Anyway, back to the race, It really does come down to the start! This circuit is very hard to pass, although any car spinning off will likely get stuck in the gravel and bring out the safety car which mixes things up!

[Gr1ff]

Put Russell in the RedBull and Max would be whining race after race. Russell is Max's level.

I find the Russel hype unfounded. So he has been great in F3 and F2. This ain’t F2 or F3. Plenty of young prospects come into F1 with an impressive resumé and then fail F1. Again i’m not suggesting Russel isnt good. He clearly is. But his hype is unfounded until he has real competition and gets to show his talent against someone who is a somewhat of a benchmark. Max has proven himself against Ricciardo who is somewhat of a known quantity because he raced against Vettel. Same applies to Leclerc, although i’d argue that this year to is clearly distorting the picture. Leclerc/Seb were evenly matched and the fight in qualifIng rather close last year - this year it aint.

Back to Russel; if you want to elevate him to Max’s or Hamilton’s level cause he has been consistently beating a nobody and a has been in a car that aint half bad (compared to the Alfa and Haas), well, i guess carry on... i’d rather wait for some more representative data.

He beat Albon and Norris in the F2 championship in 2018. So the lower category success isn't about the success in and of itself, it is also about who he competed against and beat in equal machinery.

Norris and Albon fortunately have found themselves in competitive cars.

The engineers in the paddock have access have access to Russell's telemetry. And everyone has an extremely high opinion of him.

"I think there are very talented drivers now in Formula One," Alonso told Sky Sports. "They all came with very nice preparation as well with driver academies that build the performance and the talent, helping them from a very young age. Now they are doing their job.

"From all of them, George Russell is the one that surprises me every weekend. How he's driving the Williams. Zero mistakes. I'm really surprised about his natural speed.

"So if I have to say one name, Russell for the future is going to be my pick."

https://www.espn.com/f1/story/_/id/3022 ... tar-future

Is Russell perfect yet? No. He has some things he can improve on in the race, but when the entire paddock has nothing but positive things to say when they know the true pace of all the cars, which drivers are over-achieving relative to the equipment, and he's drawing praise like that from one of the greatest drivers of this generation, I don't think it's fair to say anyone is "overhyping" Russell.

Finally, to call the Williams a car that "ain't half bad" . . . I don't know how you're reaching that conclusion.

God finally some sense. Russle is the real deal and everyone actually in F1 knows it.

[Schuttelberg]

Put Russell in the RedBull and Max would be whining race after race. Russell is Max's level.

I find the Russel hype unfounded. So he has been great in F3 and F2. This ain’t F2 or F3. Plenty of young prospects come into F1 with an impressive resumé and then fail F1. Again i’m not suggesting Russel isnt good. He clearly is. But his hype is unfounded until he has real competition and gets to show his talent against someone who is a somewhat of a benchmark. Max has proven himself against Ricciardo who is somewhat of a known quantity because he raced against Vettel. Same applies to Leclerc, although i’d argue that this year to is clearly distorting the picture. Leclerc/Seb were evenly matched and the fight in qualifIng rather close last year - this year it aint.

Back to Russel; if you want to elevate him to Max’s or Hamilton’s level cause he has been consistently beating a nobody and a has been in a car that aint half bad (compared to the Alfa and Haas), well, i guess carry on... i’d rather wait for some more representative data.

I think by this logic you should really contemplate if the 2019 and 2020 are even worthy of being called a world championship because Hamilton has been going round in circles just beating Bottas.

Leclerc wasn't worth jack till he got in Ferrari and his record at Alfa isn't as impressive as Russell's.

It is pretty obvious that Mercedes are simply protecting their eggs with Hamilton going into 2021 and may be further just because they're the fastest car. They don't want to upset Lewis in anyway and I think that is correct.

And if you think that Ricciardo > Vettel and Leclerc > Vettel then you must surely regard Button as the GOAT because he beat Hamilton on points on their 3 years together?

If you find the Russell hype unfounded, the Hamilton hype is filled with more sh!t than anyone else could imagine!

[Schippke]

Getting off the George Russell train here...

No big surprises from the Top 3 (aside from Red Bull working wonders to sort out Verstappen's car during Q2; Amazing)... but Gasly in P4, what an effort. Maybe helped a bit by the fact they did test here earlier in the year; Kyvat being only 0.2 off and ended in 8th.

For that matter, 4th to 8th could've literally snagged P4 they were so close! Biggest surprises was Racing Point not getting through to Q3... though I somewhat expect Perez to somehow, as he always seems to do, get his way back well into the points thanks to looking after the tyres and a solid strategy.

The Top 3 will scurry away, though the mid-field battle will be truly intense; I'm expecting a couple of incidents heading into the first tight corner and hopefully a chance for overtaking too... but more so, I'm hoping Gasly gets the better start and leads Max into the first few bends... sweet revenge (not for Max, but Red Bull... Yes, I'm that childish! )!

[Phil]

He beat Albon and Norris in the F2 championship in 2018. So the lower category success isn't about the success in and of itself, it is also about who he competed against and beat in equal machinery.

I hope you dont mean to suggest Albon is any kind of benchmark. After being stacked up against Max, clearly he isnt. Norris i rate, as he is quite solid against Sainz who again was solid against Max.

Still, all any year tells you is how one performs in the given machinery against his team mate. As i said already, it’s impressive what Russel is showing now. I just dont buy it or take it as any sort of guarantee you guys seem to be that he would be just as good in a very different car, like that RedBull alongside a driver of a very very different caliber in Max than Latifi or a handicapped Kubica. He may be, he may not. You dont know, i dont know.

Right now, all Russel is showing is that he can drive that Williams. Easy to look impressive when you’re not in the spotlight, measured against worthy competitors. And as i said, the Williams may not have gotten better than last year, but the Haas and the Alfa clearly have gone backwards this year with the new engine regs, which is destorting the qualifying benchmark somewhat.

The single most impressive thing about Russel for me right now is how consistent he is, at least in qualifying. He just performs and performs, while also being extremely mature too (most of the time).

[Juzh]

Russel is very good, that much is obvious, and he has massive guts to throw that car around as he does, but williams in qualifying is a pretty decent car. People think it's a dog, but actually it's just not that fast on the straights sometimes and in some more technical corners it gets a bit unstable. In terms of pure downforce they're up there with the best cars on the grid.

[Just_a_fan]

Max has proven himself against Ricciardo who is somewhat of a known quantity because he raced against Vettel. Same applies to Leclerc, although i’d argue that this year to is clearly distorting the picture.

Dan and Max was close. Dan and Seb was close. Leclerc has blown Seb away, ergo Leclerc would blow Max away.

Or is the logic not allowed to be used thus against Max?

Russell is a title-winning level driver. Given the car, he'll take anyone on the grid to the line. He is that good.

[101FlyingDutchman]

Yawn

[Phil]

Dan and Max was close. Dan and Seb was close. Leclerc has blown Seb away, ergo Leclerc would blow Max away.

Or is the logic not allowed to be used thus against Max?

Seb and Leclerc were close too, if you recall. Just not this year. Last year, they were the clostest matched pair. You can either deduct from that, that Leclerc found another gear and suddenly became 5 tenths to a second quicker, or Seb became slower. Or maybe, Seb just cant drive that car as well. Which IMO only adds to Leclercs image, as he strikes me as being more adaptable, something Vettel hasnt been a benchmark at if you take his history with more difficult cars into account.

I happen to highly rate Leclerc though. At a point, i had considered him to be the star of the future. Max has since then evolved into a very consistent performer though. The fact that he seems to drive around his cars problems too - something both Gasly and Albon cant. There too though - i dont see Gasly and Albon as any kind of benchmark. Clearly they arent. So his performance too is somewhat suspectable to be slightly misrepresentative in that vacuum.

No bias here. No overhyping. No pink glasses. I’m taking the wait and see approach with Russel.

How about we resume this talk when he gets a serious team mate who isnt there for his money or at least a real known quantity?

Oh one more thing; if Russel is that special on the basis that that William is a dog of a car and “not Q2 worthy” - which seems to be the popular narrative in proclaiming how great Russel is - how do you explain Kimi regularly faily in Q1? Oh that’s right. Maybe the Williams isnt THAT bad after all (relative to the Haas and Alfa this year...which all together make 6 cars with 5 dropping out in Q1).

[Schuttelberg]

I think Lewis has said himself that he sets up for races. Even on this track where it's impossible to overtake I expect Lewis to get Bottas, whether over/under cutting or on track. But, the desperation in some Hamilton fans to make this out to be some earth shattering achievement is just so laughable!

Russell has not been out qualified in his career and even the thought of him being in a Merc seems to unsettle Lewis fans!

Lewis doesn't need it but Jesus his fans do!

[NathanOlder]

I'm a huge Lewis fan and I'd love to see George in the other car. 2 Brits in a British based team. Perfect.

As for the whole Leclerc Seb debate, how about, 2019 Seb. gets all the Ferrari preferential treatment (righty so) and its a very close battle. 2020 Charles gets the Ferrari preferential treatment (deservedly so) and Charles blows him away.

This is the first year in Sebs F1 career where he isn't the chosen one of the 2 drivers and he's getting smashed. He needs all the perks.

[PlatinumZealot]

Mercedes is a British team with German money. lol.

I'm kidding. It is the money that counts. So the German flag is lifted.