[ 2020 ] AMG Mercedes F1 Team - Mercedes

[LM10]

Well Hamilton is just that much better. Not his fault. Also they make him play second fiddle to Bottas if it’s best for the team- Monza 2019.

Nice ninja edit.

https://ibb.co/H24J7PF

Had enough of your semantics.

Bottas is as much a 2nd driver as Barichello and Massa/Schumacher and Massa/Alonso.

Maybe you'll eventually realise after Hamilton destroys Bottas next season again.

Hamilton destroying Bottas has zero relevance to any sort of team designated 1 or 2 driver. It’s simply talent. Bottas has every chance.

I've told it once and will tell it again: Mercedes is just being very clever. They perfectly know that Bottas is nowhere near Hamilton so they don't need to actively treat a driver preferentially. It will sort itself on track anyway. There is no chance Bottas beats Hamilton over a period of a season under normal circumstances. Bottas is one of the weakest drivers in regards of race pace on the grid, but fast enough to bring enough points home in the hugely dominant Mercedes while being a perfect wing man.
It's funny Mercedes always mention how they let their drivers fight contrary to other teams. I want to see them do it knowing they're gonna need to desperately fight for the title from the get go.

[Jolle]

Nice ninja edit.

https://ibb.co/H24J7PF

Had enough of your semantics.

Bottas is as much a 2nd driver as Barichello and Massa/Schumacher and Massa/Alonso.

Maybe you'll eventually realise after Hamilton destroys Bottas next season again.

Hamilton destroying Bottas has zero relevance to any sort of team designated 1 or 2 driver. It’s simply talent. Bottas has every chance.

I've told it once and will tell it again: Mercedes is just being very clever. They perfectly know that Bottas is nowhere near Hamilton so they don't need to actively treat a driver preferentially. It will sort itself on track anyway. There is no chance Bottas beats Hamilton over a period of a season under normal circumstances. Bottas is one of the weakest racing drivers on the grid, but fast enough to bring enough points home in the hugely dominant Mercedes while being a perfect wing man.
It's funny Mercedes always mention how they let their drivers fight contrary to other teams. I want to see them do it knowing they're gonna need to desperately fight for the title from the get go.

Don't know if he's one of the weakest drivers on the grid... he already out qualified the record holder on most pole positions a couple of times this season in the same car.

[LM10]

Hamilton destroying Bottas has zero relevance to any sort of team designated 1 or 2 driver. It’s simply talent. Bottas has every chance.

I've told it once and will tell it again: Mercedes is just being very clever. They perfectly know that Bottas is nowhere near Hamilton so they don't need to actively treat a driver preferentially. It will sort itself on track anyway. There is no chance Bottas beats Hamilton over a period of a season under normal circumstances. Bottas is one of the weakest racing drivers on the grid, but fast enough to bring enough points home in the hugely dominant Mercedes while being a perfect wing man.
It's funny Mercedes always mention how they let their drivers fight contrary to other teams. I want to see them do it knowing they're gonna need to desperately fight for the title from the get go.

Don't know if he's one of the weakest drivers on the grid... he already out qualified the record holder on most pole positions a couple of times this season in the same car.

I meant his race pace, but I should have been more clear on that. I will edit it.
Anyway, poles don't give you anything, if you are not able to hold your position - which Bottas almost always can't.

[zibby43]

Nice ninja edit.

https://ibb.co/H24J7PF

Had enough of your semantics.

Bottas is as much a 2nd driver as Barichello and Massa/Schumacher and Massa/Alonso.

Maybe you'll eventually realise after Hamilton destroys Bottas next season again.

Hamilton destroying Bottas has zero relevance to any sort of team designated 1 or 2 driver. It’s simply talent. Bottas has every chance.

I've told it once and will tell it again: Mercedes is just being very clever. They perfectly know that Bottas is nowhere near Hamilton so they don't need to actively treat a driver preferentially. It will sort itself on track anyway. There is no chance Bottas beats Hamilton over a period of a season under normal circumstances. Bottas is one of the weakest racing drivers on the grid, but fast enough to bring enough points home in the hugely dominant Mercedes while being a perfect wing man.
It's funny Mercedes always mention how they let their drivers fight contrary to other teams. I want to see them do it knowing they're gonna need to desperately fight for the title from the get go.

No. The "weakest" category this year definitely belongs to Vettel (as much as it pains me to say it, because I like the guy), Albon, Stroll (he has some strong races, but is wildly inconsistent), etc. - guys that are constantly losing places, under-performing, or making mistakes.

Also, no other top team on the grid has 2 "alpha" drivers. Red Bull refuses to do it for Verstappen, and when Vettel was still competitive and scrapping with LEC last year, Ferrari gave Vettel the boot at the earliest opportunity.

Now, I do agree with the fact that Bottas isn't a match for Hamilton on most race days. But Bottas is usually there to pick up the pieces when Hamilton isn't at the front, and that's exactly what the team needs.

And this piece does a fantastic job of pointing out the fact that Bottas' pure qualifying speed is exceptional. He occasionally nicks poles off of the greatest qualifier in the history of F1.

"Bottas is the best wingman in Formula 1 – and few people seem to realise how high a level that is.

He’s scoring poles at a rate of one-in-three against (statistically) the best qualifier in F1 history, and more often than not Bottas is pushing Hamilton incredibly closely even on the days he loses out.

Yes, Bottas can go missing sometimes on Sundays. But I think those days are becoming rarer, even if he’s had some costly ones in 2020.

The bottom line is Bottas is paired with a driver who will soon be statistically the greatest in F1 history, and on one-lap pace he can pretty much hold his own."

https://the-race.com/formula-1/is-botta ... nderrated/

[zibby43]

Anyway, poles don't give you anything, if you are not able to hold your position - which Bottas almost always can't.

Bottas has 15 poles (21st all-time in F1) and 9 race wins (34th all-time in F1).

Saying he almost always fails to convert is a bit of a stretch. He's converted 5 of the pole positions into wins, which is 33%. It's not great, but it's 1 out of every 3.

And it does re-affirm the fact that he's a better qualifier than he is a pure racer.

[Shrieker]

I want to see them do it knowing they're gonna need to desperately fight for the title from the get go.

Umm.. Hello ?! That's exactly what happened with Rosberg and Hamilton

[LM10]

I want to see them do it knowing they're gonna need to desperately fight for the title from the get go.

Umm.. Hello ?! That's exactly what happened with Rosberg and Hamilton

They needed to desperately fight for the constructors title in 2016? That's new to me.

[LM10]

Hamilton destroying Bottas has zero relevance to any sort of team designated 1 or 2 driver. It’s simply talent. Bottas has every chance.

I've told it once and will tell it again: Mercedes is just being very clever. They perfectly know that Bottas is nowhere near Hamilton so they don't need to actively treat a driver preferentially. It will sort itself on track anyway. There is no chance Bottas beats Hamilton over a period of a season under normal circumstances. Bottas is one of the weakest racing drivers on the grid, but fast enough to bring enough points home in the hugely dominant Mercedes while being a perfect wing man.
It's funny Mercedes always mention how they let their drivers fight contrary to other teams. I want to see them do it knowing they're gonna need to desperately fight for the title from the get go.

No. The "weakest" category this year definitely belongs to Vettel (as much as it pains me to say it, because I like the guy), Albon, Stroll (he has some strong races, but is wildly inconsistent), etc. - guys that are constantly losing places, under-performing, or making mistakes.

Also, no other top team on the grid has 2 "alpha" drivers. Red Bull refuses to do it for Verstappen, and when Vettel was still competitive and scrapping with LEC last year, Ferrari gave Vettel the boot at the earliest opportunity.

Now, I do agree with the fact that Bottas isn't a match for Hamilton on most race days. But Bottas is usually there to pick up the pieces when Hamilton isn't at the front, and that's exactly what the team needs.

And this piece does a fantastic job of pointing out the fact that Bottas' pure qualifying speed is exceptional. He occasionally nicks poles off of the greatest qualifier in the history of F1.

"Bottas is the best wingman in Formula 1 – and few people seem to realise how high a level that is.

He’s scoring poles at a rate of one-in-three against (statistically) the best qualifier in F1 history, and more often than not Bottas is pushing Hamilton incredibly closely even on the days he loses out.

Yes, Bottas can go missing sometimes on Sundays. But I think those days are becoming rarer, even if he’s had some costly ones in 2020.

The bottom line is Bottas is paired with a driver who will soon be statistically the greatest in F1 history, and on one-lap pace he can pretty much hold his own."

https://the-race.com/formula-1/is-botta ... nderrated/

I was not talking about this year, but generally.

It might have been a stretch to tell that he "almost always" fails to turn a pole into a win, but 5 pole-win combinations since 2017 in the Mercedes is just awfully weak.

He regularly can't even really fight off Max when being infront of him. He sometimes makes the fastest car in the history of F1 look like as fast as the Redbull in the races.

[zibby43]

I've told it once and will tell it again: Mercedes is just being very clever. They perfectly know that Bottas is nowhere near Hamilton so they don't need to actively treat a driver preferentially. It will sort itself on track anyway. There is no chance Bottas beats Hamilton over a period of a season under normal circumstances. Bottas is one of the weakest racing drivers on the grid, but fast enough to bring enough points home in the hugely dominant Mercedes while being a perfect wing man.
It's funny Mercedes always mention how they let their drivers fight contrary to other teams. I want to see them do it knowing they're gonna need to desperately fight for the title from the get go.

No. The "weakest" category this year definitely belongs to Vettel (as much as it pains me to say it, because I like the guy), Albon, Stroll (he has some strong races, but is wildly inconsistent), etc. - guys that are constantly losing places, under-performing, or making mistakes.

Also, no other top team on the grid has 2 "alpha" drivers. Red Bull refuses to do it for Verstappen, and when Vettel was still competitive and scrapping with LEC last year, Ferrari gave Vettel the boot at the earliest opportunity.

Now, I do agree with the fact that Bottas isn't a match for Hamilton on most race days. But Bottas is usually there to pick up the pieces when Hamilton isn't at the front, and that's exactly what the team needs.

And this piece does a fantastic job of pointing out the fact that Bottas' pure qualifying speed is exceptional. He occasionally nicks poles off of the greatest qualifier in the history of F1.

"Bottas is the best wingman in Formula 1 – and few people seem to realise how high a level that is.

He’s scoring poles at a rate of one-in-three against (statistically) the best qualifier in F1 history, and more often than not Bottas is pushing Hamilton incredibly closely even on the days he loses out.

Yes, Bottas can go missing sometimes on Sundays. But I think those days are becoming rarer, even if he’s had some costly ones in 2020.

The bottom line is Bottas is paired with a driver who will soon be statistically the greatest in F1 history, and on one-lap pace he can pretty much hold his own."

https://the-race.com/formula-1/is-botta ... nderrated/

I was not talking about this year, but generally.

It might have been a stretch to tell that he "almost always" fails to turn a pole into a win, but 5 pole-win combinations since 2017 in the Mercedes is just awfully weak.

He regularly can't even really fight off Max when being infront of him. He sometimes makes the fastest car in the history of F1 look like as fast as the Redbull in the races.

Well today Bottas had a chunk of VET’s FW end plate stuck in his car, which cost him 50 points of downforce (which is a substantial amount). That’ll have made his braking points vary wildly from corner to corner, as well as causing his rear end to slide around a bit.

VER def. put good pressure on him today, but I think the car damage made it closer. Aside from that, I can’t think of any other time this year that VER overtook BOT wheel-to-wheel without BOT recovering the place.

Is there something I’m forgetting?

I’d say it’s fair to call the 33% pole conversion rate weak on its face, but when you consider the fact that the guy that’s beating him is the all-time F1 wins leader, and 6x WDC, then I think I can cut him some slack.

He lost a win to Hamilton in Russia when HAM was scrapping for the title. And Bottas had a really rotten turn of luck 1 year when he had a tire blowout in Baku when leading, or he’d be even higher than he already is on the all-time F1 wins list.

Massa wasn’t a tomato can and Bottas had the measure of him in qualifying as well.

In sum, I get all the racecraft/tire management criticisms of Bottas, but I think the context of who he is being directly compared to is often forgotten. And the faster BOT gets in qualifying, the more he is impressing me. Plus, BOT has my respect for racing clean and never talking crap to any other drivers. He literally does let his driving do the talking.

Anyway, I know you’re a Ferrari fan, and I’m really looking forward to you guys being back at the front again because F1 is better when Merc and Ferrari are battling. LEC is a star.

[zibby43]

More on Bottas and the amount of performance he lost from the floor damage:

Andrew Shovlin:

“If you translate it to laptime it was seven or eight tenths of a second.

“We weren’t really believing the sensors because we were looking at how Valtteri was not pushing particularly hard, able to do reasonable lap times, and when we needed him to he could build a bit of a gap.

“It’s very difficult to put an absolute laptime loss on these because they can often affect the car in a quite non-linear way around the circuit or different behaviour in different directions of corners.

“But early on we couldn’t quite believe how big it was.”

[NathanOlder]

Mercedes to remain black next year.

"Yes, we will also be driving in black in 2021. The black looks great. There will be a lot of new rules in 2022, but we want to remember our heritage with the silver arrows. But the subject of anti-racism remains very important to us," says Wolff.

https://www.gpblog.com/en/news/71791/me ... -2021.html

[e30ernest]

I really like the black on the Mercs too. Glad they're sticking to it. TBH I found the silver livery they used to run rather bland at times. That sticking to that color also helps support a good cause is also great IMO.

[PlatinumZealot]

Seems they got good market feedback by capitlzing on the whole BLM and equality thing.

[toraabe]

Russell will be there in 2022. Sure.. Future champion

[Big Tea]

Seems they got good market feedback by capitlzing on the whole BLM and equality thing.

I wonder if this is involved in Hamiltons contract negotiations?