Red Bull RB5

[myurr]

Short wheelbase helps in the slow corners as it makes the car more agile, thus where mechanical grip is at it's best the cars with the shortest wheelbase will have an advantage. Hence the idea that they are maximizing the gains.

Long wheelbase helps with high speed corner stability, both mechanically and aerodynamically. Hence minimize the losses with the '09 cars being disadvantaged most in the faster corners.

[timbo]

Short wheelbase helps in the slow corners as it makes the car more agile, thus where mechanical grip is at it's best the cars with the shortest wheelbase will have an advantage. Hence the idea that they are maximizing the gains.

Long wheelbase helps with high speed corner stability, both mechanically and aerodynamically. Hence minimize the losses with the '09 cars being disadvantaged most in the faster corners.

Exactly
I wonder how much this choise comes from simulations or from instinct of chief-designer. In anyway, in reality it is tough to say which is better - remember 2007 season, Ferrari and McLaren were comepletly different both had it's ups and downs but in the end it came very close.

[Callum]

Also, longer wheelbase means a larger underfloor surface area => more downforce

[SoliRossi]

Short wheelbase helps in the slow corners as it makes the car more agile, thus where mechanical grip is at it's best the cars with the shortest wheelbase will have an advantage. Hence the idea that they are maximizing the gains.

Long wheelbase helps with high speed corner stability, both mechanically and aerodynamically. Hence minimize the losses with the '09 cars being disadvantaged most in the faster corners.

That is a pretty good explanation, thanks for that. I fully ses what you are getting at, being an intrinsic decision to go one way or the other.

Id have gone the long wheel base. I mean the cars are going to have a ton more menchaical grip than last year as the regs are basically trying to enforce it. So the big lack will be med to high speed downforce.....id have gone down the route to get as much of that downforce back as possible. Id have also guessed there are a lot more aero sensitive corners on the calendar than there are hairpins or slow stuff.

Time will tell.

Anyone have a side by side of an 08 and 09 car? WOuld be good to see how this years wheel bases comapre to last years.

[Giblet]

Don't worry, without promising that it will happen, one of our regular users here, BAR555 usually posts year to year comparisons of each cars.

Look for his posts to see attention to detail that can numb your senses.

He posts front, top, side, and 3/4 views of pretty much every team of significance, and usually fills requests for specific comparisons. He also annotates and draws pointers.

I would imagine as the photos of the new cars keep coming out and as he picks them up he will likely send them on out.

Just don't wear him out, we need him!

Bar555 I hope I'm not calling you out for something you planned to do anyways. If you decided to not do it this year I would understand as well as it is obviously a lot of work for any one person to do.

[SoliRossi]

That is great news Giblet. Well BAR555 that would be brilliant to see, especially considering these should be distinctly different.

All teams have said we started with a clean sheet, it will be interesting too see if some teams just could not come up with a different solution for a specific area.

Well BAR if you are considering doing this it would be welcomed, however if you cant make the time we will understand, as i imagine it would be a massive task.

[kilcoo316]

Short wheelbase helps in the slow corners as it makes the car more agile, thus where mechanical grip is at it's best the cars with the shortest wheelbase will have an advantage. Hence the idea that they are maximizing the gains.

Long wheelbase helps with high speed corner stability, both mechanically and aerodynamically. Hence minimize the losses with the '09 cars being disadvantaged most in the faster corners.

There is more to it than that though.


To work the tyre up to sufficient temperature (without undue sliding - inducing adverse wear), it is necessary to have a certain level of downforce.


There is almost certainly a correlation in how confident the teams are in achieving this minimum downforce level and their floor area... hence the better teams believe they can make the small floor work, and the weaker teams not being so confident in their aerodynamics, and thus going for the longer wheelbase.


But if Ferrari/McLaren/BMW get their aerodynamics wrong, they'll have little heat in the tyres, so will lose out both mechanically and aerodynamically.

[Miguel]

I'm sorry, but I sincerely doubt any team is running anything other than the maximum permissible floor area. It's basically free downforce, so dismissing it seems kind of silly.

[kilcoo316]

I'm sorry, but I sincerely doubt any team is running anything other than the maximum permissible floor area. It's basically free downforce, so dismissing it seems kind of silly.

There is no 'maximum permissible floor area'.


There is a maximum floor area that can be attained within a wheelbase - due to the various regulations being based on the car centreline, the front wheel centreline and rear wheel centreline.


The teams pick their wheelbase knowing this.


I'm not sure if they even use the maximum floor area that can be attained within a wheelbase - I believe the sidepods can extend further forward than they do.

[Shaddock]

By increasing the wheelbase of the RB5 it has allowed space to incorporate the batteries and the KERS ancillaries whilst keeping the centre section of the car to a minimum. The trade off will be that the slick tyres are ‘said’ to require a more forward weight distribution than the grooves to get them to work. By lengthening the wheelbase the RB5 is moving its weight distribution backwards towards the rear wheels rather then forwards.

Over the past few years McLarens have been short wheel base cars in relation to the Ferrari’s. This has led to strong McLaren tracks – high kerbs, tight twisty corners, versus the Ferrari dominated tracks – tracks with medium to high speed corners where aero is dominant.

With 40kg of KERS at the back of the car, slick tyres requiring a more forward weight distribution, maybe the shorter wheelbase cars will have the advantage in the longer runs as the rear tyres on the long wheelbase cars suffer higher wear rates?

[ISLAMATRON]

The KERS whether it be 30 or 40 KG is mainly in the center of the car. All teams have placed the batteries(a majority of KERS weight) under the fuel cell. Thus far only Mclaren(and thus FIF1), BMW and Williams have admitted that they connect the MGU to the transmission, the Magnetti teams have connected it to the front of the crankshaft.

Being that the cars weigh the same with or without KERS the wear rates will not differ that much.

[Shaddock]

The KERS whether it be 30 or 40 KG is mainly in the center of the car. All teams have placed the batteries(a majority of KERS weight) under the fuel cell. Thus far only Mclaren(and thus FIF1), BMW and Williams have admitted that they connect the MGU to the transmission, the Magnetti teams have connected it to the front of the crankshaft.

Being that the cars weigh the same with or without KERS the wear rates will not differ that much.

True, but the some of the weight will be on the rear and the longer wheelbase amplifies this effect.

With regard to the rear suspension can the RB5 use inerters (J-Dampers) if they are using pull rods, rather than push? Would it be a case of just ‘turning’ the inerter around to face in the other direction.

[Saribro]

From how I understand inerters to be built, it doesn't matter what direction.

[SoliRossi]

So from the first test that took place can anyone here come up with any meaningful conclusions on the prospects of the RB5?

I assume most will subscribe to the 'its still to early'...or 'we will know more when we see all the cars together'.

Surley there is someone out there that has the expertise to say...its a rocket ship or a lemon.

[ISLAMATRON]

it certainly does not seem to be a lemon thus far