[ 2020 ] Mclaren F1 Team - Renault

[Lucky]

[SmallSoldier]

He did seem to have several fastest laps (to that time) so possibly it is his passing holding him back?
Then again, if you collide it doesn't matter how fast you are, you are off. Points for finishers only.

I don’t think that his passing is lacking... If we are discussing the last race in particular, the conditions at the beginning of the race made it not only hard to follow the cars in front due to the lack of downforce and overall grip, it was also not advisable to try and put a move by going out of the racing line, where the grip was even lesser.

Once the track started to dry out, the drivers could start making overtakes as we saw with both Sainz and Norris in the second half of the race.

Actually it´s the other way around, at the beginning there was no racing line (ie the track was full of water all around, no dry line) and the grip was so low they were extremelly slow, so DF was minimal and dirty air problem was at its minimum. Add to that those difficult conditions increase driver mistakes increasing ovetaking chances

Once the line dried up a bit it was more difficult to overtake as grip was significantly lower out of the line, and since cars were faster (at the racing line) dirty air problem increased.

Problem was Lando´s start wich he defined himself as his worst ever. Then he did a solid race from that point, but he must improve starts significantly, they´re crucial in F1

I beg to disagree, drivers after the race explained that it was more difficult to make an overtake during the first half of the race because there was too much standing water out of the racing line, which in junction with the slippery track made it too risky to try and overtake.

Once the track started to dry out and the water was displaced, placing the car outside of the racing line was “safer” and therefore more conducive to overtakes (as it happened during the race).

Regarding the wake, even though the cars were going “slow” at the beginning of the race, the dirty is still present and with a wet and slippery track that effect is larger.

Lando’s start wasn’t great and it was explained afterwards by Mclaren that the clutch settings were tricky to identify since they didn’t even know their exact grid position until shortly before the race, if in addition Lando started on the dirty side of the track were there is even less grip, I’m not surprised that he didn’t had a good takeaway.


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[ThePapayaJaguar]

https://www.planetf1.com/news/mclaren-f ... le-for-p3/

An interview with Seidl regarding Ferraris resurgence and his feelings towards the fact that in hindsight, they probably protected their tyres more than they needed to and could have pushed for a podium.

I have thought for some time McLaren have been a little too conservative with their strategies. Turkey was a real opportunity to role the dice, given the conditions. They could have split the strategies and boxed one car (Lando) earlier for inters as LeClerc did. If you are reacting to the cars in front of you, you are always on the back foot.

Lando was within a second of LeClerc when LeClec boxed on L6. Once Lando had completed his first full lap after his stop, he was 6.6 sec down and 4 paces further back despite having a a faster in lap(2s), stopped lap(3s) and out lap(3.7s).

Discount the faster in lap, ah Lando was being held up by LeClerc, Lando could have been over 6 secs further up the road after LeClerc boxed.

Can't stress this enough. When Leclerc was setting purples on his outlap I was screaming internally for them to box at least one driver but they did like 7 unnecessary laps on old wets. Even in Imola they could've let one driver out given how hard overtaking was.

I think now that Andreas has had a full year with the team, he can now focus on the details like strategy to improve for the future. Not only that, but he can now improve things operationally and on a larger scale, along with James Key and Andrea Stella, as he sees fit considering he knows how the team works for the most part.

[Chicane]

A top tier driver like Ricciardo will be able to dictate strategy to a greater extent next season. He has shown it already this season with Renault.

You cannot blame the team alone, the drivers need to be ready to take calculated risks cos they are the ones piloting the cars. We will see how the team will be forced in a good way to get these niggling issues we see in terms of operations and strategy in order next season.

McLaren are getting Ricciardo at the right moment. One year to acclimatize and then from 2022 McLaren should be aiming to fight for podiums in 2022 if they nail the new regulations.

[Lucky]

https://www.auto-motor-und-sport.de/for ... -istanbul/

[Darth-Piekus]

I have thought for some time McLaren have been a little too conservative with their strategies. Turkey was a real opportunity to role the dice, given the conditions. They could have split the strategies and boxed one car (Lando) earlier for inters as LeClerc did. If you are reacting to the cars in front of you, you are always on the back foot.

Lando was within a second of LeClerc when LeClec boxed on L6. Once Lando had completed his first full lap after his stop, he was 6.6 sec down and 4 paces further back despite having a a faster in lap(2s), stopped lap(3s) and out lap(3.7s).

Discount the faster in lap, ah Lando was being held up by LeClerc, Lando could have been over 6 secs further up the road after LeClerc boxed.

Can't stress this enough. When Leclerc was setting purples on his outlap I was screaming internally for them to box at least one driver but they did like 7 unnecessary laps on old wets. Even in Imola they could've let one driver out given how hard overtaking was.

I think now that Andreas has had a full year with the team, he can now focus on the details like strategy to improve for the future. Not only that, but he can now improve things operationally and on a larger scale, along with James Key and Andrea Stella, as he sees fit considering he knows how the team works for the most part.

Considering what Brawn GP did I don't see why Mclaren can't pull another Brawn GP and find a loophole. This is the time for James Key to show us if he is another Andrian Newey or if he is overhyped.

[SmallSoldier]

Can't stress this enough. When Leclerc was setting purples on his outlap I was screaming internally for them to box at least one driver but they did like 7 unnecessary laps on old wets. Even in Imola they could've let one driver out given how hard overtaking was.

I think now that Andreas has had a full year with the team, he can now focus on the details like strategy to improve for the future. Not only that, but he can now improve things operationally and on a larger scale, along with James Key and Andrea Stella, as he sees fit considering he knows how the team works for the most part.

Considering what Brawn GP did I don't see why Mclaren can't pull another Brawn GP and find a loophole. This is the time for James Key to show us if he is another Andrian Newey or if he is overhyped.

So, if Key doesn’t find a loophole he is over hyped? That’s ridiculous


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[ThePapayaJaguar]

A top tier driver like Ricciardo will be able to dictate strategy to a greater extent next season. He has shown it already this season with Renault.

You cannot blame the team alone, the drivers need to be ready to take calculated risks cos they are the ones piloting the cars. We will see how the team will be forced in a good way to get these niggling issues we see in terms of operations and strategy in order next season.

McLaren are getting Ricciardo at the right moment. One year to acclimatize and then from 2022 McLaren should be aiming to fight for podiums in 2022 if they nail the new regulations.

Agreed. His two years in the midfield have definitely helped him improve his decision making and tire management even more. IIRC, he did a really long stint on mediums at Spa.

[diffuser]

I think now that Andreas has had a full year with the team, he can now focus on the details like strategy to improve for the future. Not only that, but he can now improve things operationally and on a larger scale, along with James Key and Andrea Stella, as he sees fit considering he knows how the team works for the most part.

Considering what Brawn GP did I don't see why Mclaren can't pull another Brawn GP and find a loophole. This is the time for James Key to show us if he is another Andrian Newey or if he is overhyped.

So, if Key doesn’t find a loophole he is over hyped? That’s ridiculous


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Took Newey 4 years after he joined RBR to start winning races. They won the Title the 5th year. he joined RBR in Feb 2006, they won the Title in 2010.

[Mclarensenna]

Can't stress this enough. When Leclerc was setting purples on his outlap I was screaming internally for them to box at least one driver but they did like 7 unnecessary laps on old wets. Even in Imola they could've let one driver out given how hard overtaking was.

I think now that Andreas has had a full year with the team, he can now focus on the details like strategy to improve for the future. Not only that, but he can now improve things operationally and on a larger scale, along with James Key and Andrea Stella, as he sees fit considering he knows how the team works for the most part.

Considering what Brawn GP did I don't see why Mclaren can't pull another Brawn GP and find a loophole. This is the time for James Key to show us if he is another Andrian Newey or if he is overhyped.

The double deck diffuser loophole has been greatly over exaggerated and many myths are still circulating.
Like the Brawn was the fastest car in 2009 and they were only ones that found this loophole etc etc.

Brawn was actually not the only team who rocked up with it initially. So did Toyota and Williams so 3 teams had it.
Another myth floating around was with a tiny budget and a massive loophole like the double deck diffuser you can win in F1
Again not entirely true.
Honda spent 400 to 500 million the year before 1 of the highest budgets on the grid so their chassis was very very fast but their engine held them back. Brawn said once they threw in the Merc it added a massive 1 second in turn making it 1 of the fastest cars on the grid and. The Honda engine was the anchor in that car, masking a very fast chassis.

People also under estimate buttons experience and speed. He basically beat Barrichelo by the same margin Schumacher did who was at his peak back then before retiring so Button drove the wheels off that car in 2009 and was 1 of if not the fastest drivers on the grid in 2009.
In the first race Vettel was running in 2nd in the Redbull before an error. Race 2 was wet and Vettel spun off.
But Race 3 Vettel was on Pole, Webber 3rd and they both ran away with the race well over 1 second a lap quicker than the Field. Button in 3rd was 44 seconds off the leader i was surprised he did not get lapped the Redbull was so quick by race 3.
So this myth Brawn had the fastest car the first half of the year is also unfounded.

The German Grand prix race 9 Webber had so much pace he put the hammer down and even with a drive thru penalty still won the race. The pace that redbull had in 2009 was on another planet most races.
Just vettel had too many accidents and up and down performances due to inexperience.
The Redbull from race 1 was actually the fastest car or at least equal to the Brawns with flexi wings and other tricks Newey put on it. Once Newey also added the double deck diffuser the redbull was on another planet towards the middle and end of the season.

Redbulls won the last 3 races of the season also. The reason Brawn beat Redbull in 2009 was Barrichelo and Button were way more consistant and exdperienced than Vettel and Webber.
Brawn definately did not have the fastest car overall in 2009.
The main issue Brawn had was they had a very limited budget in 2009 compared to the top teams
The started off strong as the car was developed with the huge honda f1 budget. But as the season progressed the limited budget caused them to fall back to the rest of the field.

"This is the time for James Key to show us if he is another Andrian Newey or if he is overhyped."
So to answer this there is no way Mclaren and James Key are coming up with any loopholes with stable rule regulations, very limited budget this year compared to the top teams, and the fact their chassis in race pace is 2 seconds off the pace of Merc and Redbulls in 2020. Brawn/Honda chassis had a 1 second deficit that was closed with the Merc engine in 2009.
Unless Mclaren gets a 2 second advantage switching to the Merc engine in 2021 (impossible i would say) then they have no chance like Brawn did in 2009.

[billamend]

The double deck diffuser loophole has been greatly over exaggerated and many myths are still circulating.

Brawn said so himself in his interview in Beyond The Grid.

[Mclarensenna]

Considering what Brawn GP did I don't see why Mclaren can't pull another Brawn GP and find a loophole. This is the time for James Key to show us if he is another Andrian Newey or if he is overhyped.

So, if Key doesn’t find a loophole he is over hyped? That’s ridiculous


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Took Newey 4 years after he joined RBR to start winning races. They won the Title the 5th year. he joined RBR in Feb 2006, they won the Title in 2010.

Exactly! I also read Redbull also had the biggest F1 budget in 2010, plus all the latest facilities and latest wind tunnel, something Ferrari nor Mclaren had. So Redbull had a budget advantage AND infrastrucure advantage.
Newey is incredible and possibly the greatest designer of all time, but he is not a magician.

James key on the other hand has no such such advantages to work with. According to Seidl they still have massive infrastructure/wind tunnel deficits to Redbull, Ferrari, Merc and even Renault.
The wind tunnel will not be ready for another 2 years I heard due to the covid delay.
So James Key has a huge handicap and hill to climb to get Mclaren back to the top.

[diffuser]

I don't buy all that stuff about the Honda PU. It wasn't the problem. They had basically started working on 2009 in 2007. 2007, they made the decision to make 2008 a lame duck year. So yes they had all those Honda resources focused for 2009 and Honda pulled out

Naturally the car had everything but the double diffuser was the star. It took the other teams till June - July to start to introduce their own Double D. Then more months to extract the max out of it.

BTW Brawn(Button) won all of the first 7 races, except China, which was run during a monsoon. So China was not a judge of how fast the car was.

[Mclarensenna]

It is amazing you go to the trouble and post over 20 facts and detailed reply and f1 posters here come along and downvote me and pastes this complete nonsense to my earlier detailed response

"Overall dismissed loads of context and factss"

At least have the respect to reply instead of just negative bashing posts with the most nonsensical non factual , no context neg. The irony is incredible i must say whoever wrote this as you negged me with zero facts or context yourself. I actually never dismissed any facts or context so i got no idea why they would neg my post with this reason. The irony is off the chart with this response

Why do some have the power to not reply or contribute, but neg posts, make up a ridiculous ironic nonsense reasons why they negged it, then completely hide anonymously behind their lies?
Shouldnt you at least respond to the post before negging it or clarifying with the post you not in agreement with, or actually neg it for a valid reason?

On top a 2 year poster like me is unable to neg posts. But other posters not sure the criteria (been members longer or made alot more posts) can neg your posts only.
How is that fair this 1 way annonymous negging ?

[Big Tea]

Mclaren went through the looking for a loophole or silver bullet period, it did not work and hardly ever will. They need to keep doing what they are doing and do it well, the same as the other top teams. Loopholes do not make a better car, just gives an advantage for a year (or less), knowledge of the car carries on year on year