[ 2020 ] Mclaren F1 Team - Renault

[diffuser]

Yes, I'm worried about the same, on the drivers pres conference Perez said, I wanted to stay especially knowing the car we will have next year ... so....

Yea, The pink Merc will have a suspension upgrade, a PU upgrade and half a chassis upgrade where as Mclaren will only get a PU upgrade

Sad State of Affairs... FIA Corruption needs to Stop... Can't wait for Todt to leave....

#1McLaren's PU change was their choice, nobody forced it upon them. Actually, the opposite, McLaren force the token system on everyone else. FIA said something to this effect "cause of covid, to help all the teams get through the next two years(finacially) only aero changes, no structural changes". Then McLaren said "OH OH OH we want to go ahead with our PU change, how can we make that happen?". We're in this situation cause the FIA tried to satisfy McLaren. They could have said "Chuck you Farley" to Mclaren. So before feeding us will all your BS and conspiracy theories, get your FACTS right.

#2 With regards to Merc Parts giving an edge to RP. Those regs were made a while ago. At that time, it wasn't expected that such a large gap would exist between the top team and the midfield. RP can only purchase 2020(previous year's) parts. The only reasons this works for RP right now is cause Merc team is so much faster than the midfield and stable rules. Next year will be thier last. In 2022 they will not be able to use 2021 aero parts. Also, once the current years cars are significantly faster than the previous years Merc, there will be no advantage to buying year old parts from Merc. Hopefull this gets all fixed in 2022 with the new regs and the Cap.

At Bahrain. The Gap, in qualifing, between P1 and the first non RBR,RP was 1.2 seconds. So the midfield has to make up MORE that 1.2 (minus the floor reg change) in the off season to make Merc parts purchase not worth while.

The floor reg change is a new variable to weaken RP stance as merc will not have parts to help in sealing that floor with the change. We have that to look forward too.

I'm expecting a struggle for 5th/6th for McLaren next year. Significantly more DNFs than this year. I think the pain in 2021 will help them bounce back in 2022, which is when I expect Renault to struggle with thier new PU.

[Emag]

It would definitely be the big sad if they hit issues with the new engine next year.

[SmallSoldier]

Yea, The pink Merc will have a suspension upgrade, a PU upgrade and half a chassis upgrade where as Mclaren will only get a PU upgrade

Sad State of Affairs... FIA Corruption needs to Stop... Can't wait for Todt to leave....

#1McLaren's PU change was their choice, nobody forced it upon them. Actually, the opposite McLaren force the token system on everyone else. FIA said "cause of covid, to help all the teams get through the next two years(finacially) only aero changes, no structiral changes". Then McLaren said "OH OH OH we want to go ahead with our PU change, how can we make that happen?". So before feeding us will all your BS get your FACTS right.

#2 With regards to Merc Parts giving an edge to RP. Don't forget, RP can only purchase 2020(previous year's) parts. The only reasons this works for RP right now is cause Merc team is so much faster than the midfield and stable rules. Next year will be thier last. In 2022 they will not be able to use 2021 aero parts. Also, once the current years cars are significantly faster than the previous years Merc, there will be no advantage to buying year old parts from Merc. Hopefull this gets all fixed in 2022 with the new regs and the Cap.

At Bahrain. The Gap, in qualifing, between P1 and the first non RBR,RP was 1.2 seconds. So the midfield has to make up MORE that 1.2 (minus the floor reg change) in the off season to make Merc parts purchase not worth while.

The floor reg change is a new variable to weaken RP stance as merc will not have parts to help in sealing that floor with the change. We have that to look forward too.


I'm expecting a struggle for 5th/6th for McLaren next year. Significantly more DNFs than this year. I think the pain in 2021 will help them bounce back in 2022, which is when I expect Renault to struggle with thier new PU.

I don’t expect many issues for Mclaren changing PU’s... I understand that the last couple of changes came with challenges, but the change to the Honda PU problems were related to the Honda PU unluckily not been up to par when introduce... The change to Renault afterwards didn’t generate big issues (except for the ones at testing where there were pockets of hot air, which were addressed before the start of the season)... The problems in 2018 weren’t related to the change in PU (even though that was a pretty late call).

There seems to be a myth that changing PU’s means that the teams will struggle by default due to the change, but I fail to understand what is the causality in that situation.

In regards to finish position, next year will probably be very similar to this one, with a group of cars very close to each other (Mclaren, Renault, Alpha Tauri) with a couple of unknowns... Ferrari could make a big jump next year if they have been working on 2021 behind the scenes (they will have a new engine next season and the lack of major upgrades during the season would indicate focus on next year’s car)... Racing Point is the other one that could either be really good like this year or fall behind a bit compared to the rest of the midfield if they don’t manage the change in the floor as well as others.


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[diffuser]

Re-Edited.

Here is a Fact you can't get around. You always have more bugs with a new design over improvement on a existing design. So expresssions like "I don't expect ,they've learned from the past, they've done it before" mean nothing. Fact is they'll have more "Integration" issues in 2021 than they had in 2020. Where you can make upground is if you have fewer issues with the Merc PU than the Renault PU over the increase in intergration issues. Though Renault is gonna run pretty much the same PU as this year. So I don't see that as being significan.

I'm not saying 100% that they'll have more problems. It's just very likely 70% and up.

[Balalu]

I'm not concerned about the "free upgrades" RP are getting, but rather the love going on between Mercedes/Wolf and RP.

[Emag]

Here is a Fact you can't get around. You always have more bugs with a new design over improvement on a existing design.

I wouldn't say always but yeah obviously. Working with something you are familiar with is definitely easier than working with something that is new.

[SmallSoldier]

Re-Edited.

Here is a Fact you can't get around. You always have more bugs with a new design over improvement on a existing design. So expresssions like "I don't expect ,they've learned from the past, they've done it before" mean nothing. Fact is they'll have more "Integration" issues in 2021 than they had in 2020. Where you can make upground is if you have fewer issues with the Merc PU than the Renault PU over the increase in intergration issues. Though Renault is gonna run pretty much the same PU as this year. So I don't see that as being significan.

I'm not saying 100% that they'll have more problems. It's just very likely 70% and up.

Here is where we disagree... You don’t always have more bugs with a new design... You “may” encounter more bugs with “may” been the key word and your probability of finding those issues is directly related to the pre-work you have perform before the installation... The fact that they have done a couple of changes recently just means that they have more information in regards to “what can go wrong” and how to avoid it.

Part of my job is overseeing CAPEX investments and their execution, we have had new equipment installation that has gone really smooth and some that have created more headaches than even our worst estimations... The fact is that just because we were installing a brand new piece of equipment / process didn’t created issues in itself, it was the execution and planning that had the biggest impact on success... Lessons learned has helped a lot also.

Can they find a lot of issues with the new installation? Yes... Is it a given that it will be the case? Not for me.


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[diffuser]

Something I've noticed repeatedly in quali after Quali ...is

SPEED TRAP KM/H      |FINISH LINE KM/H
5 55 C. SAINZ  325.2 | 4 L. NORRIS 297.1
8  4 L. NORRIS 323.7 |55 C. SAINZ  295.0

The gap in speed between Finish line and Speed trap, most of the time this is down the main start/finish straight, is almost alway larger for sainz. These means Sainz tends to run less DF. That is the only way to be slower at the finish line (norris is on the power sooner) that at the Speed trap. Sainz, having less DF, has a higher top speed and faster acceleration over 300KPH. He also tends to have fewer problems passing at tracks that have a long enough straight/DRS than Norris.

[mwillems]

Yea, The pink Merc will have a suspension upgrade, a PU upgrade and half a chassis upgrade where as Mclaren will only get a PU upgrade

Sad State of Affairs... FIA Corruption needs to Stop... Can't wait for Todt to leave....

#1McLaren's PU change was their choice, nobody forced it upon them. Actually, the opposite, McLaren force the token system on everyone else. FIA said something to this effect "cause of covid, to help all the teams get through the next two years(finacially) only aero changes, no structural changes". Then McLaren said "OH OH OH we want to go ahead with our PU change, how can we make that happen?". We're in this situation cause the FIA tried to satisfy McLaren. They could have said "Chuck you Farley" to Mclaren. So before feeding us will all your BS and conspiracy theories, get your FACTS right.

#2 With regards to Merc Parts giving an edge to RP. Those regs were made a while ago. At that time, it wasn't expected that such a large gap would exist between the top team and the midfield. RP can only purchase 2020(previous year's) parts. The only reasons this works for RP right now is cause Merc team is so much faster than the midfield and stable rules. Next year will be thier last. In 2022 they will not be able to use 2021 aero parts. Also, once the current years cars are significantly faster than the previous years Merc, there will be no advantage to buying year old parts from Merc. Hopefull this gets all fixed in 2022 with the new regs and the Cap.

At Bahrain. The Gap, in qualifing, between P1 and the first non RBR,RP was 1.2 seconds. So the midfield has to make up MORE that 1.2 (minus the floor reg change) in the off season to make Merc parts purchase not worth while.

The floor reg change is a new variable to weaken RP stance as merc will not have parts to help in sealing that floor with the change. We have that to look forward too.

I'm expecting a struggle for 5th/6th for McLaren next year. Significantly more DNFs than this year. I think the pain in 2021 will help them bounce back in 2022, which is when I expect Renault to struggle with thier new PU.

Why do you expect significant DNFs?
Is that the only reason you expect us to be 5th or 6th?

Do you expect RP and Ferrari to be ahead?

[M840TR]

Sad State of Affairs... FIA Corruption needs to Stop... Can't wait for Todt to leave....

#1McLaren's PU change was their choice, nobody forced it upon them. Actually, the opposite McLaren force the token system on everyone else. FIA said "cause of covid, to help all the teams get through the next two years(finacially) only aero changes, no structiral changes". Then McLaren said "OH OH OH we want to go ahead with our PU change, how can we make that happen?". So before feeding us will all your BS get your FACTS right.

#2 With regards to Merc Parts giving an edge to RP. Don't forget, RP can only purchase 2020(previous year's) parts. The only reasons this works for RP right now is cause Merc team is so much faster than the midfield and stable rules. Next year will be thier last. In 2022 they will not be able to use 2021 aero parts. Also, once the current years cars are significantly faster than the previous years Merc, there will be no advantage to buying year old parts from Merc. Hopefull this gets all fixed in 2022 with the new regs and the Cap.

At Bahrain. The Gap, in qualifing, between P1 and the first non RBR,RP was 1.2 seconds. So the midfield has to make up MORE that 1.2 (minus the floor reg change) in the off season to make Merc parts purchase not worth while.

The floor reg change is a new variable to weaken RP stance as merc will not have parts to help in sealing that floor with the change. We have that to look forward too.


I'm expecting a struggle for 5th/6th for McLaren next year. Significantly more DNFs than this year. I think the pain in 2021 will help them bounce back in 2022, which is when I expect Renault to struggle with thier new PU.

I don’t expect many issues for Mclaren changing PU’s... I understand that the last couple of changes came with challenges, but the change to the Honda PU problems were related to the Honda PU unluckily not been up to par when introduce... The change to Renault afterwards didn’t generate big issues (except for the ones at testing where there were pockets of hot air, which were addressed before the start of the season)... The problems in 2018 weren’t related to the change in PU (even though that was a pretty late call).

There seems to be a myth that changing PU’s means that the teams will struggle by default due to the change, but I fail to understand what is the causality in that situation.

In regards to finish position, next year will probably be very similar to this one, with a group of cars very close to each other (Mclaren, Renault, Alpha Tauri) with a couple of unknowns... Ferrari could make a big jump next year if they have been working on 2021 behind the scenes (they will have a new engine next season and the lack of major upgrades during the season would indicate focus on next year’s car)... Racing Point is the other one that could either be really good like this year or fall behind a bit compared to the rest of the midfield if they don’t manage the change in the floor as well as others.


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The consensus was that the 2018 pu change did effect the car's performance because it was so late and the team had to marshal critical resources that would've otherwise been spent in various other areas.

[SmallSoldier]

#1McLaren's PU change was their choice, nobody forced it upon them. Actually, the opposite McLaren force the token system on everyone else. FIA said "cause of covid, to help all the teams get through the next two years(finacially) only aero changes, no structiral changes". Then McLaren said "OH OH OH we want to go ahead with our PU change, how can we make that happen?". So before feeding us will all your BS get your FACTS right.

#2 With regards to Merc Parts giving an edge to RP. Don't forget, RP can only purchase 2020(previous year's) parts. The only reasons this works for RP right now is cause Merc team is so much faster than the midfield and stable rules. Next year will be thier last. In 2022 they will not be able to use 2021 aero parts. Also, once the current years cars are significantly faster than the previous years Merc, there will be no advantage to buying year old parts from Merc. Hopefull this gets all fixed in 2022 with the new regs and the Cap.

At Bahrain. The Gap, in qualifing, between P1 and the first non RBR,RP was 1.2 seconds. So the midfield has to make up MORE that 1.2 (minus the floor reg change) in the off season to make Merc parts purchase not worth while.

The floor reg change is a new variable to weaken RP stance as merc will not have parts to help in sealing that floor with the change. We have that to look forward too.


I'm expecting a struggle for 5th/6th for McLaren next year. Significantly more DNFs than this year. I think the pain in 2021 will help them bounce back in 2022, which is when I expect Renault to struggle with thier new PU.

I don’t expect many issues for Mclaren changing PU’s... I understand that the last couple of changes came with challenges, but the change to the Honda PU problems were related to the Honda PU unluckily not been up to par when introduce... The change to Renault afterwards didn’t generate big issues (except for the ones at testing where there were pockets of hot air, which were addressed before the start of the season)... The problems in 2018 weren’t related to the change in PU (even though that was a pretty late call).

There seems to be a myth that changing PU’s means that the teams will struggle by default due to the change, but I fail to understand what is the causality in that situation.

In regards to finish position, next year will probably be very similar to this one, with a group of cars very close to each other (Mclaren, Renault, Alpha Tauri) with a couple of unknowns... Ferrari could make a big jump next year if they have been working on 2021 behind the scenes (they will have a new engine next season and the lack of major upgrades during the season would indicate focus on next year’s car)... Racing Point is the other one that could either be really good like this year or fall behind a bit compared to the rest of the midfield if they don’t manage the change in the floor as well as others.


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The consensus was that the 2018 pu change did effect the car's performance because it was so late and the team had to marshal critical resources that would've otherwise been spent in various other areas.

My understanding is that the 2018 performance issues were due to a mistake made in the chassis where the bargeboards were closer to the front wheels than designed, therefore they weren’t controlling the wake of the front tire as efficiently and forced to run more downforce to compensate for the lack of aero performance when entering a turn.


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[SmallSoldier]

#1McLaren's PU change was their choice, nobody forced it upon them. Actually, the opposite McLaren force the token system on everyone else. FIA said "cause of covid, to help all the teams get through the next two years(finacially) only aero changes, no structiral changes". Then McLaren said "OH OH OH we want to go ahead with our PU change, how can we make that happen?". So before feeding us will all your BS get your FACTS right.

#2 With regards to Merc Parts giving an edge to RP. Don't forget, RP can only purchase 2020(previous year's) parts. The only reasons this works for RP right now is cause Merc team is so much faster than the midfield and stable rules. Next year will be thier last. In 2022 they will not be able to use 2021 aero parts. Also, once the current years cars are significantly faster than the previous years Merc, there will be no advantage to buying year old parts from Merc. Hopefull this gets all fixed in 2022 with the new regs and the Cap.

At Bahrain. The Gap, in qualifing, between P1 and the first non RBR,RP was 1.2 seconds. So the midfield has to make up MORE that 1.2 (minus the floor reg change) in the off season to make Merc parts purchase not worth while.

The floor reg change is a new variable to weaken RP stance as merc will not have parts to help in sealing that floor with the change. We have that to look forward too.


I'm expecting a struggle for 5th/6th for McLaren next year. Significantly more DNFs than this year. I think the pain in 2021 will help them bounce back in 2022, which is when I expect Renault to struggle with thier new PU.

I don’t expect many issues for Mclaren changing PU’s... I understand that the last couple of changes came with challenges, but the change to the Honda PU problems were related to the Honda PU unluckily not been up to par when introduce... The change to Renault afterwards didn’t generate big issues (except for the ones at testing where there were pockets of hot air, which were addressed before the start of the season)... The problems in 2018 weren’t related to the change in PU (even though that was a pretty late call).

There seems to be a myth that changing PU’s means that the teams will struggle by default due to the change, but I fail to understand what is the causality in that situation.

In regards to finish position, next year will probably be very similar to this one, with a group of cars very close to each other (Mclaren, Renault, Alpha Tauri) with a couple of unknowns... Ferrari could make a big jump next year if they have been working on 2021 behind the scenes (they will have a new engine next season and the lack of major upgrades during the season would indicate focus on next year’s car)... Racing Point is the other one that could either be really good like this year or fall behind a bit compared to the rest of the midfield if they don’t manage the change in the floor as well as others.


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The consensus was that the 2018 pu change did effect the car's performance because it was so late and the team had to marshal critical resources that would've otherwise been spent in various other areas.

Forgot to say that the late change also had an effect on how well that process was managed, with the Mercedes PU the team has had more time to plan and design the integration and at least based on what Key has stated the process is going well so far.


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[mwillems]

I don’t expect many issues for Mclaren changing PU’s... I understand that the last couple of changes came with challenges, but the change to the Honda PU problems were related to the Honda PU unluckily not been up to par when introduce... The change to Renault afterwards didn’t generate big issues (except for the ones at testing where there were pockets of hot air, which were addressed before the start of the season)... The problems in 2018 weren’t related to the change in PU (even though that was a pretty late call).

There seems to be a myth that changing PU’s means that the teams will struggle by default due to the change, but I fail to understand what is the causality in that situation.

In regards to finish position, next year will probably be very similar to this one, with a group of cars very close to each other (Mclaren, Renault, Alpha Tauri) with a couple of unknowns... Ferrari could make a big jump next year if they have been working on 2021 behind the scenes (they will have a new engine next season and the lack of major upgrades during the season would indicate focus on next year’s car)... Racing Point is the other one that could either be really good like this year or fall behind a bit compared to the rest of the midfield if they don’t manage the change in the floor as well as others.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

The consensus was that the 2018 pu change did effect the car's performance because it was so late and the team had to marshal critical resources that would've otherwise been spent in various other areas.

Forgot to say that the late change also had an effect on how well that process was managed, with the Mercedes PU the team has had more time to plan and design the integration and at least based on what Key has stated the process is going well so far.


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Since we can not take advantage of the tighter packaging of the Mercedes engine (or so I believe), and the lack of our ability to change the chassis much anywhere else, I'm not convinced we will have integration issues, the only known issue I can think of is that the Merc can overheat, but I don't think we will lack cooling.

I suspect that any issues associated with the Merc engine have impacted us more this year as we diverted more resource to getting the car ready for next year before the homologation dates, and less resource given to developing this years car in a more organic manner.

[diffuser]

I think RP have a, like others said, an edge with buying Merc parts. They are ahead and they'll stay ahead (pace wise). Wether they can execute is another question. I haven't really thought about the effects of Vettel/Stroll driver combo will have. My guess is a negative effect but Vettel has surprised me in the past. He still not as good as his 4 world titles suggest but he still has ability. Even with less points from Vettel, they'll like get more points from Stroll and they will not have the loss of points from Copy gate. So they'll likely finish ahead.

I talked about why More DNFs, They'll have Integration issues. Renault Pu is integrated and you've run it for a few sseasons so you could have worked on getting even more kinks.

I think Renault to be about the same but just a little ahead because our slight tick down.


Ferrari is a really big Question mark. Can they be working on a completly new PU for 2022 and an upgraded 2020 PU for 2021? I don't think that's even allowed. So it depends on what PU they have for next year. I don't see how they could have an all new PU and not have to take tokens for it like McLaren. Like Renault I think thier new PU is said to be split turbo. I haven't followed Ferrari as closely.

[Ground Effect]

Re-Edited.

Here is a Fact you can't get around. You always have more bugs with a new design over improvement on a existing design. So expresssions like "I don't expect ,they've learned from the past, they've done it before" mean nothing. Fact is they'll have more "Integration" issues in 2021 than they had in 2020. Where you can make upground is if you have fewer issues with the Merc PU than the Renault PU over the increase in intergration issues. Though Renault is gonna run pretty much the same PU as this year. So I don't see that as being significan.

I'm not saying 100% that they'll have more problems. It's just very likely 70% and up.

I think it’s all down to how prepared they are for the change, how much attention they give, and understanding the magnitude of the process. They’ve had a pretty decent lead time, and Key has said they’re working extremely well with Mercedes. Red Bull fared OK last year I think, with the Honda switch. McLaren also have experience with this layout, prior to Key joining and Key also over saw the Honda switch at then STR, with the same layout. It’s obviously not a given that it’ll go swimmingly, but it’s also not a given that it won’t. I just don’t believe there must be issues, I expect them to do a better job in 2022 than in 2021, simply due to more experience and more leeway.