2020 Sakhir Grand Prix - Sakhir, Dec 04 - 06

[Sevach]

I’ve just been thinking. I wonder how many drivers can say they’ve driven in a WDC & WCC car in its championship season when it wasn’t them that won the championship(s)?

Wasn't it Emerson Fittipaldi who took Rindt's seat at Lotus in 1970 ?

and a coincidence that its Emo's grandson who is replacing Grosjean this weekend

As a brazilian i listened to this story many times...

Emerson was in the Lotus stable of drivers for that season already(i don't remember if he did all races, things were weird like that), Rindt was the number 1 guy who got the "good stuff".
After Rindt's fatal accident in Monza he was leading the championship but not WC, Emerson's win at Watkins Glen won Rindt the championship mathematically.

[Fulcrum]

I’ve just been thinking. I wonder how many drivers can say they’ve driven in a WDC & WCC car in its championship season when it wasn’t them that won the championship(s)?

Mika Salo in 1999?

[langedweil]

I still think its going to come down to the pre-set gear ratios ...

I've been wondering for a while now what the reasoning behind this ruling is/was, you happen to know ?
It's been around for a while now ..

Just as an example and not meant to twist history, let's assume that in 2019 the Honda PU was way more powerful than Red Bull could have realistically expected. As being short on power in the Renault days, they fiddled around with the ratio's for years to get the best possible outcome. But now all of a sudden they have a PU that could well use longer ratio's for top end speed without losing out on the torque side. That would suck big time, as you're locked in after lights out in Oz ...

No saying that actually happenend, but the scenario is strange; championship would be virtually lost before 1 lap is completed. That feels kinda weird ..

Or would it be possible to determine the best ratio's on a dyno?

[langedweil]

I still think its going to come down to the pre-set gear ratios ...

I've been wondering for a while now what the reasoning behind this ruling is/was, you happen to know ?
It's been around for a while now ..

Just as an example and not meant to twist history, let's assume that in 2019 the Honda PU was way more powerful than Red Bull could have realistically expected. As being short on power in the Renault days, they fiddled around with the ratio's for years to get the best possible outcome. But now all of a sudden they have a PU that could well use longer ratio's for top end speed without losing out on the torque side. That would suck big time, as you're locked in after lights out in Oz ...

No saying that actually happenend, but the scenario is strange; championship would be virtually lost before 1 lap is completed.

Would it be possible to determine the best ratio's on a dyno? Or is it just not that important ?

[zibby43]

One thing you have to give to Mercedes is the web of words they use to disguise their many lies.

Binotto was much more efficient/succinct in this regard.

He was able to concisely express that the SF90 was the fastest on the straights because it was "low drag."

What are Merc's many lies?

[Restomaniac]

I’ve just been thinking. I wonder how many drivers can say they’ve driven in a WDC & WCC car in its championship season when it wasn’t them that won the championship(s)?

Mika Salo in 1999?

Salo’s points helped secure the WCC IIRC.

[Schuttelberg]

One thing you have to give to Mercedes is the web of words they use to disguise their many lies.

Binotto was much more efficient/succinct in this regard.

He was able to concisely express that the SF90 was the fastest on the straights because it was "low drag."

What are Merc's many lies?

Oh Binotto is a snake as well.

I mean have you not been following F1 in the hybrid era? However, I will stick to the subject and say that the reason Russell isn't in the Merc in 2021 is because they want to keep a number 2 driver in Bottas and not create an intra team rivalry potentially if Russell joins. All that nonsense about Williams not releasing Russell from their contract has been proven codswallop. Mercedes basically call the shots on Russell. They have both championships secured and it makes no sense for Williams to release Russell now with Mercedes having nothing to gain and Williams still in with a shout of beating Haas. Why would they release their best bet to get some points and yet not let Russell go for 2021? It makes no sense.

Mercedes basically wanted to have Bottas rear gun Hamilton for at least 2021 as well and they don't have the guts to say so. That's why the "Williams didn't release George" narrative.

[dans79]

I mean have you not been following F1 in the hybrid era? However, I will stick to the subject and say that the reason Russell isn't in the Merc in 2021 is because they want to keep a number 2 driver in Bottas and not create an intra team rivalry potentially if Russell joins. All that nonsense about Williams not releasing Russell from their contract has been proven codswallop. Mercedes basically call the shots on Russell. They have both championships secured and it makes no sense for Williams to release Russell now with Mercedes having nothing to gain and Williams still in with a shout of beating Haas. Why would they release their best bet to get some points and yet not let Russell go for 2021? It makes no sense.

Mercedes basically wanted to have Bottas rear gun Hamilton for at least 2021 as well and they don't have the guts to say so. That's why the "Williams didn't release George" narrative.

All i see here is a lot of colored speculation!

[Fulcrum]

I’ve just been thinking. I wonder how many drivers can say they’ve driven in a WDC & WCC car in its championship season when it wasn’t them that won the championship(s)?

Mika Salo in 1999?

Salo’s points helped secure the WCC IIRC.

Clearly, I don't understand your question.

[NathanOlder]

I still think its going to come down to the pre-set gear ratios ...

I've been wondering for a while now what the reasoning behind this ruling is/was, you happen to know ?
It's been around for a while now ..

Just as an example and not meant to twist history, let's assume that in 2019 the Honda PU was way more powerful than Red Bull could have realistically expected. As being short on power in the Renault days, they fiddled around with the ratio's for years to get the best possible outcome. But now all of a sudden they have a PU that could well use longer ratio's for top end speed without losing out on the torque side. That would suck big time, as you're locked in after lights out in Oz ...

No saying that actually happenend, but the scenario is strange; championship would be virtually lost before 1 lap is completed. That feels kinda weird ..

Or would it be possible to determine the best ratio's on a dyno?

Dyno work will usually sort this, plus dont forget they have the whole of pre season testing where they can take as many ratio's as they like. So if a team settles for the wrong ratios, they only have themselves to blame.

[Restomaniac]

Mika Salo in 1999?

Salo’s points helped secure the WCC IIRC.

Clearly, I don't understand your question.

The W11 that Russell is driving has already secured the WCC & WDC. When was the last time a driver drove a car that had mathematically already secured them.

[factory_p]

I've been wondering for a while now what the reasoning behind this ruling is/was, you happen to know ?
It's been around for a while now ..

Just as an example and not meant to twist history, let's assume that in 2019 the Honda PU was way more powerful than Red Bull could have realistically expected. As being short on power in the Renault days, they fiddled around with the ratio's for years to get the best possible outcome. But now all of a sudden they have a PU that could well use longer ratio's for top end speed without losing out on the torque side. That would suck big time, as you're locked in after lights out in Oz ...

No saying that actually happenend, but the scenario is strange; championship would be virtually lost before 1 lap is completed. That feels kinda weird ..

Or would it be possible to determine the best ratio's on a dyno?

Manufacturing lead times for gear ratios are probably around 6 weeks. So the ratios for the 1st race have to be ordered at the end of january. That doesn't mean the team won't order extra ratios to fine tune their gearbox if the performance differs from their simulation.

The performance of the engine used at the first race is pretty much fixed as early as december. If anything, it can only go down if worrying reliability concerns appear over the final validation and pre-season testing but it can't go up.

With approximately 1 month between the first pre-season test and the 1st race, I'd be surprised if a team fails to adjust his ratios to his power output.

[Wouter]

[PlatinumZealot]

Very true.
Which just goes to prove what a rare occurrence this is. The actual chassis that won the WDC and WCC and one that Hamilton has been fine tuning and bedding in. Rather amazing really.
Unless of course they give Russell a new chassis and keep Hamilton’s out of the firing line so to speak.

Would be shame is George destroyed that champion chassis wouldn't it? Heh. Sending it off into the barriers or something. It is huge pressure.

[PlatinumZealot]

Salo’s points helped secure the WCC IIRC.

Clearly, I don't understand your question.

The W11 that Russell is driving has already secured the WCC & WDC. When was the last time a driver drove a car that had mathematically already secured them.

In the same season or the second season of use?
The question should be then when has a championship winner departed his car before the season has finished. Easier to find out using that train of thought.