2020 Sakhir Grand Prix - Sakhir, Dec 04 - 06

[i70q7m7ghw]

Bottas is up about 3 tenths on Russell.

The track limits violation was worth a maximum of half of a tenth.

Doesn't matter how much you think it's worth, if he does that in qualifying he won't qualify. The question is, can he still deliver a fast lap time without cutting the track? So far this weekend he's been very ragged.

[i70q7m7ghw]

Does anyone legitimately think Lewis would not be at the front (if not leading, be in contention) if it was a spec series?

I mean, he's won in plenty of spec series before F1... I guess most casuals that frequent this forum don't watch anything other than F1.

[zibby43]

Bottas is up about 3 tenths on Russell.

The track limits violation was worth a maximum of half of a tenth.

Doesn't matter how much you think it's worth, if he does that in qualifying he won't qualify. The question is, can he still deliver a fast lap time without cutting the track? So far this weekend he's been very ragged.

Yes, it matters. And it’s not what I think. It’s what George and Toto have told us from their data. Take out the several hundredths advantage of driving the offending corner that way . . . and poof.

That’s not a hard adjustment to make. Also, I kind of like that Bottas is using the practice sessions to test limits.

George is having to use them to learn the car itself.

[Hoffman900]

Does anyone legitimately think Lewis would not be at the front (if not leading, be in contention) if it was a spec series?

I mean, he's won in plenty of spec series before F1... I guess most casuals that frequent this forum don't watch anything other than F1.

Exactly my point. Lewis earned his seat and still has it. He may be a tenth or so off 25yo Lewis, but he more than makes up for it in race savvy.

Most here root for their driver for whatever reason, but they’re mostly emotional arguments. I would expect better from F1 fans especially because as a sport they like to consider themselves smarter and more technically saavy than other motorsports (I disagree and I think there is an air of arrogance in F1 and its status in motorsports).

[LHamilton]

People are quick to make an opinion. People are quick to change their opinion. Let's wait and see until the whole weekend is over before jumping to conclusions. I though people had learned from previous experiences that FP sessions rarely accounts for the actual grid. But I guess what we have learned, is that some people don't learn from history.

[i70q7m7ghw]

Yes, it matters. And it’s not what I think. It’s what George and Toto have told us from their data. Take out the several hundredths advantage of driving the offending corner that way . . . and poof.

That’s not a hard adjustment to make. Also, I kind of like that Bottas is using the practice sessions to test limits.

George is having to use them to learn the car itself.

If it's not a hard adjustment to make, why didn't he make it? I've driven plenty of laps that COULD have been fast, had I not made a mistake and cut the track somewhere else during the lap. To get around the whole lap he might need to dial down the aggression, which might mean he loses out marginally throughout the whole lap.

Ultimately, he hasn't don't a representative lap, and that's all that counts in qualifying.

[Restomaniac]

Probably Ricardo Patrese in 1987, replacing Mansell for the final round of the season. Williams had already won the WCC, Piquet the WDC.

Mansell helped to secure the WCC title in 1994, but both titles were still on the line when he drove as a replacement for Coulthard, and Hill didn't win the WDC.

Interesting. So that’s as close as we get to this (Just the WCC title in that car).

I’m not being a pedant I’m just trying to highlight how utterly unusual this kind of situation is.

Considering you're limiting it to the EXACT car, rather than just the team, that is hyper specific.

What you're effectively asking is, how often has a driver won the WDC, then not attended a race; with the added restriction being that the team had won the WDC as well.

1961 is an interesting case. Ferrari won both WDC and WCC, then decided to skip the last race. No replacements, so it doesn't count.

If Lauda had won in 1976, Reutemann would have driven the eventual WDC and WCC car. At the time he drove it, it was neither.

Gilles Villeneuve took Lauda's place at Ferrari for the final two races of the 1977 season. Lauda had already won the WDC, and Ferrari won the WCC by the final round, so this may satisfy the conditions, provided Villeneuve drove in Lauda's chassis. I can't verify that, but if true, it seems like the only instance where this set of circumstances have occurred before.

That was the point I’m making. Russell finds himself in a very singular position and there are positives and negatives to that.

[godlameroso]

It seems that Verstappen was absolutely right - it's not Hamilton, it's a car.

Nothing stopping Red Bull copying it (until next year)

I'm sure those 16mm of wheelbase makes all the difference. That's like 8x 2mm.

[zibby43]

Yes, it matters. And it’s not what I think. It’s what George and Toto have told us from their data. Take out the several hundredths advantage of driving the offending corner that way . . . and poof.

That’s not a hard adjustment to make. Also, I kind of like that Bottas is using the practice sessions to test limits.

George is having to use them to learn the car itself.

If it's not a hard adjustment to make, why didn't he make it? I've driven plenty of laps that COULD have been fast, had I not made a mistake and cut the track somewhere else during the lap. To get around the whole lap he might need to dial down the aggression, which might mean he loses out marginally throughout the whole lap.

Ultimately, he hasn't don't a representative lap, and that's all that counts in qualifying.

Addressing the bolded, in order:

1) Because it’s practice - more to gain from pushing the limit than putting in a time.

2) When it’s one corner that’s the problem, I have no idea why he’d decide to slow down everywhere else. I’ve never approached a problematic corner that way, especially on a lap with so few corners.

3) True, but it isn’t qualifying yet.

I respect that you feel differently, but I view the situation as Bottas having Russell covered handily over the course of a lap on such a short track.

I do agree with you that he’ll need to deliver the tidy lap in qualifying. I just see any potential problems arising there due to traffic and logistics, as opposed to the line Bottas takes through a single corner.

We’ll see what happens.

[Zynerji]

It seems that Verstappen was absolutely right - it's not Hamilton, it's a car.

With that mindset, Redbull/Max will never win a championship.. so... keep it up

That's exactly what both Hamilton and Alonso used to say when Vettel was dominating.

[Big Tea]

It seems that Verstappen was absolutely right - it's not Hamilton, it's a car.

Nothing stopping Red Bull copying it (until next year)

I'm sure those 16mm of wheelbase makes all the difference. That's like 8x 2mm.

Yeh, but they were working on it 10 years before anyone else, so they had time to make the best use of 2mm

[Mansell89]

The completely predictable nonsense being spewed about Lewis today. Bottas would have comfortably beat Russell in FP2 he just had some bad luck.

George has been really impressive though and I think he has backed up his performances for Williams as opposed to proving anything else.

Bit difficult to really judge a guy at a 55 second lap circuit. Where Lewis truly excels is on the technical tracks- take a look at Lewis v Bottas in Hungary for example as opposed to Lewis v Bottas in Sochi.

George is a young man doing great, Valteri we know is a rock solid yardstick, and Hamilton is the benchmark.

Just enjoy it for what it is- a random weekend on a mad track with little to really be learned.

[ringo]

I think the P2 session prove that the driver plays a coniderable role.
Note how close the redbull is to mercedes here. It should be a half a second to the more powerful merc.
Redbull is understeering and doesn't have DAS and max is very close to Russel. It is showing that Bottas time would have been more representative of the car ie about 3 to 4 tenths faster. Maybe with Lewis in it we would see 5 to 6 tenths a lap.
So i do not think there is a strong case to say the car is so good that anyone can win in it. Russel is just as good as Max or Leclerc; and his fans would argue he is better, but let's not be fooled, Max has a very strong chance of winnig the race tomorrow. He and Bottas, not George. The race experience with their respective cars counts for a lot.

[Big Tea]

The completely predictable nonsense being spewed about Lewis today. Bottas would have comfortably beat Russell in FP2 he just had some bad luck.

George has been really impressive though and I think he has backed up his performances for Williams as opposed to proving anything else.

Bit difficult to really judge a guy at a 55 second lap circuit. Where Lewis truly excels is on the technical tracks- take a look at Lewis v Bottas in Hungary for example as opposed to Lewis v Bottas in Sochi.

George is a young man doing great, Valteri we know is a rock solid yardstick, and Hamilton is the benchmark.

Just enjoy it for what it is- a random weekend on a mad track with little to really be learned.

Counterbalanced by Atkin not walking over LAT. that would not have looked so good for Russel or Merc

[Just_a_fan]

Lastly, it’s always been about the car. For as long as F1 has been around. As pointed out before, the Driver’s Championship and Manufacturer’s Championship have only diverged a small handful of times.

Exactly. If the car wasn't important then why did Fangio swap teams all the time, sometimes mid season, in order to secure the best car? Why didn't Prost win the title in the Renault or the MP4/2. Why did he wait until the MP4-2B? Why didn't Senna win the title in the Toleman? Why didn't Clark win titles in the Lotus 18 or the 21? Why didn't he win it in his first season in the 25? Why wait 'til the second season with the 25? What was Stewart playing around at in the BRM? Or Vettel in the RB5 or the RB10 or any of the Ferraris of the last 6 years?

Any driver needs a top flight car to win titles. If the car is rubbish then the results are rubbish. Simple really.