2020 Sakhir Grand Prix - Sakhir, Dec 04 - 06

[maxxer]

39 pages of driver bashing even before the race has started , its getting better every week lol

[JRindt]

Yep. We’ve had Hamilton, Russel, Bottas, Verstappen and Ricciardo till now. Add in Vettel and Alonso, we got a world war 3 on our hands

[Fulcrum]

It’s nice to see everyone jumping around the small difference between Bottas and Russel, but are forgetting that they are ultimately comparing Russels second and improved run with Bottas’s first. Apart from that one run, Bottas was consistently quicker than George during the entire session when it mattered, beating him in every single run.

Meanwhile, George’s replacement (who had zero f1 time up to that point) at Williams pretty much beat Latifi until the rather substantial mistake on the very last corner. Tells us how good Latifi is.

Russel is good. But again, this track was never going to say much. A more technical track would be more telling.

I think you don't like the fact that Russell did ran Bottas so close. I think you hoped Russell would do poorly so you could say It's Lewis not the car.

Both drivers did shittily if you ask me! They should have stomped the RedBull by half a second if Lewis was driving. Max within 5 hundreths show that he can beat Mercedes if Lewis isnt driving.

I agree. Based on how far up the road Mercedes usually are, the gap to Max is very atypical. Circuit dynamics, and the percentage of laptime spent with DRS open must be playing a part, but I expected a 2-3 tenth gap myself.

[NathanOlder]

I think you don't like the fact that Russell did ran Bottas so close. I think you hoped Russell would do poorly so you could say It's Lewis not the car.

Both drivers did shittily if you ask me! They should have stomped the RedBull by half a second if Lewis was driving. Max within 5 hundreths show that he can beat Mercedes if Lewis isnt driving.

When was the last time Hamilton outqualified a competitor by half a second on a track where a lap is less than 55 seconds? Mercedes have toned down the power ever since the recent regulation of having standard engine modes for quali and race. Since then, Max has been running closer to Mercedes, than earlier in the season with that change. In last week's Bahrain GP, Hamilton outqualified Max by 4 tenths on a 88 second lap. The outer circuit demands lesser downforce to the regular one. Short circuit, lesser downforce requirement bunched the field closer. So saying Hamilton could have outqualified the Red Bull by half a second is taking it too far beyond rationality.

Absolutely not! Firstly, these guys have never been in F1 on a lap under a minute, so why ask? And if you mean before F1, then it would be spec series, so it hardly ever happens. This is F1 and PZ was talking about the Merc/Lewis combo.
Secondly, we went to a power track a few months ago, AFTER the engine mode clamp down and guess what, Mercedes were 9 tenths!! a second a lap ahead of RedBull on a lap that was 78 seconds. So here being a power track, and 53 seconds that would give us a gap of easily over half a second if Lewis was in the Merc and the gap to RedBull was the same percentage as Monza. So its not taking it too far beyond rationality. Its actually a very good educated guess.

[Fulcrum]

So we now have clear evidence of Russell’s raw pace. However does he have the race craft?

Relative to Hamilton, absolutely not. Relative to Bottas, probably still a no. A podium would be a good result, as I think Verstappen will be faster over the race distance.

True. However you can learn race craft but without the raw pace to start with.....

That WAS always Verstappen’s problem he’s always been blindingly fast but lacked the race craft to go with it. Hell even Hamilton had to improve his from when he was younger so as long as Russell learns he’ll be fine as he gets more miles on his clock.

Things would get very interesting if Russell leads into the first corner.

[NathanOlder]

Another thing I'd like to add, 1991, Spa. Schumacher came in to F1 and qualified 7 tenths ahead of de Cesaris in his first race. 7 tenths ahead on a very technical track. Thats what happens when you put super talent up against a average to poor driver. So if Bottas was as bad as people claim, either Russell would have beat him easily, or Russell is poor like Bottas and Lewis is only just a little better. Schumacher showed that a new comer can easily be in the car and destroy a driver if the other driver is average at best. Russells record in single seaters shows he has unbelievable talent, so Bottas being ahead for now tells me both are very strong but George has the huge potential as he's only 22.

[Sieper]

How do you want to make a 7 tenths difference on this track? Plus the Merc equals out the drivers a bit I think. Because it is so good.

[Restomaniac]

Another thing I'd like to add, 1991, Spa. Schumacher came in to F1 and qualified 7 tenths ahead of de Cesaris in his first race. 7 tenths ahead on a very technical track. Thats what happens when you put super talent up against a average to poor driver. So if Bottas was as bad as people claim, either Russell would have beat him easily, or Russell is poor like Bottas and Lewis is only just a little better. Schumacher showed that a new comer can easily be in the car and destroy a driver if the other driver is average at best. Russells record in single seaters shows he has unbelievable talent, so Bottas being ahead for now tells me both are very strong but George has the huge potential as he's only 22.

A better comparison would be Schumacher Vs De Cesaris and Russell Vs Kubica/Latifi. In that regard the similarity is there for all to see.

[Phil]

Things would get very interesting if Russell leads into the first corner.

I very much doubt this will happen, unless Bottas kills it. But even then, i see Verstappen as the far more likely contender to take the lead, given the clean side. And then there is also the point that both Mercedes are starting on the mediums, while everyone behind them will be on softs.

Once the race gets going, i predict a very tight race and DRS trains, possibly to the detriment of whoever is leading ahead. It will be key to break the 1 second gap. If Russel somehow keeps himself in P2 after the first few corners and lap, i could see good chances for him to get to the front with a tow and DRS.

Anyhow, i think if one of the Mercedes drop into traffic, it’s going to be a difficult race. In FP2 they were running more downforce than their direct competitors and that will prove to be quite a handicap in passing anyone (assuming they didnt change that substantially, which i dont think they did), especially if DRS is neutralized. Them being on mediums might be a small ace for the first part of the race.

[jjn9128]

Things would get very interesting if Russell leads into the first corner.

Very unlikely considering how badly that side of the grid got off the line last week. He'll be lucky to still be p2.

[ferkan]

Obviously it's the car, this is F1. It doesn't take anything from greatness that is Lewis though, but many people wrongly assume Lewis would beat Max and Leclerc because he is 7xWDC and is spanking Bottas, this is where assumption IMO fails. We don't know. IMO Max is best driver currently in F1, closely followed by Ham and Leclerc. Leclerc is probably fastest over one lap, but Max in Merc vs Ham? Would be fireworks. Rosberg managed to beat him, albeit with lady luck helping, but Max is much bigger talent then Rosberg.

There was a guy in 2007 that came to a team and matched 2xWDC, so why wouldn't it happen again?

Sir Frank says hamilton is one of the once in 20 years drivers. Max doesn't get that classification. But anyhow i dont thtink they will team up. Max may need to worry about Perez getting that 2nd redbull seat next year. Perez may just be his greatest challenge.

Lol dont know what F1 you guys are looking at but Max would eat Perez alive. Even Ocon was running him close (and beating him in qualis).

[mzso]

Seems a big PR machine trying to save Ham's rep here...and not sure it needs saving. Bot beat Ham fair and square a few times this season. He also beat Rus today in a car he has no experience in and does not fit him. IMHO, Rus's accomplishments seem quite significant.

I don't see why people need elevate someone when they pile-up statistics in a morbidly dominant car. I didn't get it with Schumacher and Vettel either. Both pretty much discredited their elevated status some years later. Vettel by faltering and frequently making mistakes when circumstances are not laboratory perfect for him in a dominant car.
And Schumacher by getting clobbered by Rosberg who in turn struggled to match Hamilton.

I see more value in Häkkinen's two or Villeneuve's one championship that Schumacher's last five, or Vettel and Hamilton's(Mercedes) championships.

[mzso]

Sir Frank says hamilton is one of the once in 20 years drivers. Max doesn't get that classification. But anyhow i dont thtink they will team up. Max may need to worry about Perez getting that 2nd redbull seat next year. Perez may just be his greatest challenge.

Nowhere is where that passes as a valid argument. Many people with accomplishments have said amazingly stupid things.
The fact is, that no-one can show their capability in a vastly inferior car. In my opinion there are multiple drivers who could likely challenge Hamilton in similarly capable cars. Leclerc, Verstappen, probably Russel and Sainz, Ricciardo

[ferkan]

Seems a big PR machine trying to save Ham's rep here...and not sure it needs saving. Bot beat Ham fair and square a few times this season. He also beat Rus today in a car he has no experience in and does not fit him. IMHO, Rus's accomplishments seem quite significant.

I don't see why people need elevate someone when they pile-up statistics in a morbidly dominant car. I didn't get it with Schumacher and Vettel either. Both pretty much discredited their elevated status some years later. Vettel by faltering and frequently making mistakes when circumstances are not laboratory perfect for him in a dominant car.
And Schumacher by getting clobbered by Rosberg who in turn struggled to match Hamilton.

I see more value in Häkkinen's two or Villeneuve's one championship that Schumacher's last five, or Vettel and Hamilton's(Mercedes) championships.

In Schumis defense, he was 4 years out of F1 with 41 on his back and did actually get better and closer to Rosberg, and in 2012 getting better of him in qualis. Rosberg still had more points and won that year, albeit with 4 DNFs less.

Imagine Lewis retiring next year and coming back in 2025 vs peak Rosberg?

[mzso]

Yeah I sort of expect Verstappen to overtake him at the start. Maybe even Bottas. For Russell to finish 3rd would probably be the most realistic expectation.

Hopefully I can wake up for this race. It happens really late from my end of the globe (1:10am!) and my work starts early (7am). But I really want to see this race not only because of the new layout, but also to see how Russell does.

That's almost a given since he will start on the last grippy side with Verstappen and Bottas on the other. If he is first or second after the first turn it will be a masterful start.