Will Electric Vehicles Be Viable? When?

[strad]

I think it's very interesting if you live in a warm sunny place.

[flynfrog]

pretty cool Ted Talk from Eva



Going to the motorcycle land speed record with an electric. I think the efficiency she talks about at the end is pretty interesting.

[djos]

I think it's very interesting if you live in a warm sunny place.

Do you live in North Dakota or something?

Btw you can get really good info on what you could expect from a solar system in your location without burning a heap of cash first.

https://pvwatts.nrel.gov/pvwatts.php

[Ferry]

One thing the pro electric people don’t mention or don’t know. It takes the car to go 50,000 miles before the car offsets the carbon footprint needed to make the car.

That has been discussed a lot! You can find many an article about that. I've seen claims from 15.000 km to 700.000 km.
Here's one side: https://www.dw.com/en/ifo-study-casts-d ... a-48460328
Here's another:
Or here: https://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-51977625

[Andres125sx]

One thing the pro electric people don’t mention or don’t know. It takes the car to go 50,000 miles before the car offsets the carbon footprint needed to make the car.

That has been discussed a lot! You can find many an article about that. I've seen claims from 15.000 km to 700.000 km.
Here's one side: https://www.dw.com/en/ifo-study-casts-d ... a-48460328
Here's another:
Or here: https://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-51977625

That whole debate is biased and flawed. ICE emit a lot of harmful substances apart of CO2, for example CO and NO2. Limiting the debate to CO2 is a desperate attempt from EV haters/petrol companies to artificially keep in the fight

Respiratory problems into cities due to pollution has no relation with CO2 at all. When we talk about air quality it´s PM2.5 and NO2 what is considered, CO2 is not even in the equation!
https://waqi.info/#/c/40.705/7.397/3.8z


Obviously EVs emit zero CO, zero NO2, and just a small fraction of PM2.5, but you will never see a comparison between EVs and ICEs wich consider this because of the simple fact that the comparison would be aburd, it´s like comparing what´s healthier, if playing PS games or running, none with a brain will loose his time with such an absurd comparison

EVs are several orders of magnitude better both for the environement and for our health than ICE, period. Anyone stating otherwise has hidden interests, or has be conviced by someone with hidden interests

[Tommy Cookers]

What is the consumpton of normal EVs?

It depends on a few things, drag, weight, efficiency of power unit, outside temperature. Typical consumption is about 16 kWh/100 km on average for most EV's. In summer my BMW i3 can do 100 km with 10 to 14 kWh, in winter times 15 to 18 kWh.
Lowering speed is a very effective measure because aero drag is squared with speed. Another thing is that density of air increases with lower temperature. Therefore in winter you have more aerodynamic drag.

with lower temperature .....

air density increases ....
eg in winter more than 50% of the atmosphere is in the northern hemisphere
eg a colder atmosphere has less water vapour (water vapour is much LIGHTER than air)
the reason why the Singapore GP wasn't at 1300 hrs
(the aviator in humid hot conditions should be aware - and density altitude calculations often ignore humidity)

and 'rolling resistance' mechanical drag increases ....
plus RR also INCREASES with speed - eg doubling over the legal speed range
RR is high in EVs due to their greater weight - and can often be higher than aero drag

though of course the EV loses less efficiency at low powers (than does the ICEV)
there's still a penalty for buying more power/size etc than is really needed

[strad]

Ok dios I'll leave it to you to decipher this for me.
Results from the site djos posted: "System output may range from 4,187 to 4,535 kWh per year near this location."
How does that output rate and what would it cost to buy and have installed?
EDIT
Just checked and the average usage in my area is just over 1000 kWh per month.
Thumbing thru my bills for a year I find the lowest month is 1192 kWh

[djos]

Can you post what data you input please? Minus your location of course.

[strad]

I cannot get a screen shot to post for some reason. The following is from the site you linked....and is their standard setup.
DC System Size (kW):4

Module Type:
Standard

Array Type:
Fixed (open rack)

System Losses (%):
14.08

Tilt (deg):
20

Azimuth (deg):
180

[djos]

I cannot get a screen shot to post for some reason. The following is from the site you linked....and is their standard setup.
DC System Size (kW):4

Tilt (deg):
20

Azimuth (deg):
180

Ok, 4kW is pretty small and imo anything under 5kW is pointless - especially if your usage is high like ours (we use 11 to 13 MWh's per year).

Try putting in 10kW (assuming you have the roof space) and change the tilt to match your roof pitch. I'm guessing yours would be more like 30 deg if you live in higher latitudes. Also try to get the Azimuth as close to your South facing roof angle as you can.

In my case I have my system split over 2 different roof sections - as I'm in the Southern Hemisphere I went with NE / NW with the NW facing panels being the larger array.

"System output may range from 4,187 to 4,535 kWh per year near this location."

This is actually not bad for 4kW, If I apply the same settings (but N facing) to my location I only get an extra 700 kWh's per year. If I use my actual system size the estimation is within 200 kWh's of my production for last year.

If I bump it up to a 10 kW array it estimates 13,013 kWh/Year which would cover 100% of my annual usage. I'll prolly extend mine at some point as I do have more roof I can use. However, I couldn't afford to go bigger at the time. Still worth it for me as it cut my bills in half.

I can't talk to price because it varies so wildly from country to country, as do incentives - what I can say tho is don't go cheap, get high-quality Tier 1 panels (eg LG, SunPower) and a Tier 1 Solar inverter (Fronius, SMA, SolarEdge - ignore micro inverters unless you have shading issues, otherwise they arent worth the price premium).

EDIT: Price directly feeds into Pay Back time too - my system cost me $5,300 AUD after Federal and State rebates. In simple terms that means my pay-back time is 3.5 years - everything after that is free power!

[strad]

@djos All those figures come from the site you posted and according to them is adjusted to be how they suggest installation.
5 grand plus with installation on top is a large chunk when you are retired and on a fixed income.
On thinking about it... IF they want us to all retrofit our homes with solar and it's sooo important the government should pay for it or maybe Al Gore.

[djos]

@djos All those figures come from the site you posted and according to them is adjusted to be how they suggest installation.
5 grand plus with installation on top is a large chunk when you are retired and on a fixed income.
On thinking about it... IF they want us to all retrofit our homes with solar and it's sooo important the government should pay for it or maybe Al Gore.

That’s very true mate, that’s why you need to run the numbers for your locale and finances.

My folks retired to country south Australia a few years ago and they installed a big system to counter the expensive SA power prices.

If your power is really cheap and is likely to stay cheap, then solar might not make financial sense for you. Even if power is costing you a flat 14c p/kWh, that’s still $140 a month you need to find. There’s frequently Green Zero interest loans that can mean you aren’t paying any extra and once your system is paid for, your bill is basically zero.

I was lucky that I got $7k in rebates on a $12k system. We only get 10c per kWh as a gross feed in tariff so at some point I’d like to add battery storage to cover the expensive peak power rates from 3pm to 7am each day.

[strad]

My rate is 8.14¢/kWh
Thanks for the advice.

[Greg Locock]

djos - I get 20c from the horrible AGL. That means I only pay them one month a year, the rest of the time they pay me.

[Brake Horse Power]

My rate is 8.14¢/kWh
Thanks for the advice.

That is extremely cheap. With those rates it doesn't really stimulate sustainability..