Vettel's 4 vs Hamilton's 6.

[jjn9128]

Michael's genius was beyond just the race track. He was the pioneer of physical fitness

I think you will find a lot of people disagree with this statement! I would personally say senna was an innovator in this area well before Michael!

Senna was fit compared to the Mansell's of f1 who ate burgers and ketchup for every meal. Even then Mansell was considerably stronger than Senna. However, Schumacher was in another league of physical, elite athlete, level fitness.

[Moore77]

Michael's genius was beyond just the race track. He was the pioneer of physical fitness

I think you will find a lot of people disagree with this statement! I would personally say senna was an innovator in this area well before Michael!

Is that why Senna ditched McLaren that gave him 3 titles to go chasing Williams, which was dominating? Just like Hamilton, Senna walked into MP4/4 and three subsequent dominating machines. But then ditched when the cars lost juice.

[tangodjango]

Some have definitely made it no different than Reddit.

If Michael would have got such dominant cars like Hamilton had these past 7 years, he wouldn't have had to try extra hard to win. Hamilton is only enjoying cars built by a strong team, for which Michael laid platform. It takes a lot to go to a struggling marquee to bring glory. Not like Hamilton getting frustrated of not winning at McLaren, jumping ship and luckiing into great cars.

I get what you're saying, but don't forget, Lewis joined a struggling marquee at the end of 2012

Yes Mercedes have been stronger than Ferrari were, but Schumacher fought for titles from year 2 and continued to do so for the following 8 or 9 years. So it is a very similar story, just Lewis has enjoyed a better spell of dominance.

Hamilton has enjoyed far superior machinery that he didn't have any role building foundation of it. Hamilton walked into a setup which already had all the required ingredients for success. He simply had to drive the cars that were built by the team. Michael built team around him and involved in all aspects of building the machinery that he drove. If you want, i can repost all those articles that we already went through in the other thread related to Hamilton equalling Michael's records.

Hamilton is just a successful driver, whereas Michael's genius was beyond just the race track. He was the pioneer of physical fitness, team building/bonding and of course an unbelievably quick race driver, probably the quickest that has been.

So quick that Rosberg beat him 3-0?

[dans79]

Michael's genius was beyond just the race track. He was the pioneer of physical fitness

I think you will find a lot of people disagree with this statement! I would personally say senna was an innovator in this area well before Michael!

Is that why Senna ditched McLaren that gave him 3 titles to go chasing Williams, which was dominating? Just like Hamilton, Senna walked into MP4/4 and three subsequent dominating machines. But then ditched when the cars lost juice.

What does any of that have to do with physical fitness?

[Big Tea]

Michael's genius was beyond just the race track. He was the pioneer of physical fitness

I think you will find a lot of people disagree with this statement! I would personally say senna was an innovator in this area well before Michael!

this may surprise a few. Sorry I can find no video from it, but also keep in mind that Hunt should have won th elift, but could not locjk out. He claimed later that he has naturally round shoulders and that was a locked as it gets, and several 'experts ' agreed, so he could have been second

Not sure how to present this so I leave it as a link

(http://www.thesuperstars.org/comp/76gbr.html)

[NathanOlder]

Michael's genius was beyond just the race track. He was the pioneer of physical fitness

I think you will find a lot of people disagree with this statement! I would personally say senna was an innovator in this area well before Michael!

this may surprise a few. Sorry I can find no video from it, but also keep in mind that Hunt should have won th elift, but could not locjk out. He claimed later that he has naturally round shoulders and that was a locked as it gets, and several 'experts ' agreed, so he could have been second

Not sure how to present this so I leave it as a link

(http://www.thesuperstars.org/comp/76gbr.html)

wish they would do a series like this again. would be very good to see with modern sports people

[tangodjango]

Jeez why so upset man I simply thought the fastest driver of history would have 'geniused' his way to atleast beating Rosberg (a lucky ordinary champion) at even 50, never mind 40. In any case it's a great pity Aldo Costa doesn't agree with you.

[NathanOlder]

Upset? I don't have to. I don't get paid to be a PR agent for anyone like some here.
There are a million people who don't agree with me. It hardly concerns me and happy pitying. Nothing changes my opinion that Schumacher is the best driver F1 has seen and Hamilton just drove dominant cars to simply buy wins and championships from a supermarket.

That's fine you think Schumacher is the greatest. Why do you spend so much energy and effort discrediting Hamilton? Just an idle question. Seems pretty unhealthy to me.

Discrediting? I just state the facts the way I see it.

I think most of Brawns opinions on the 2 places them as equal. The way you talk about Hamilton would give the impression you rate Lewis as a 2nd tier driver. Using Ross as a measure on things, he recently said Lewis deserves all of his titles. But you would probably say he only really deserves 1 or 2. Your opinion is very different to what 99% of the F1 world see.

[hollus]

Feel free to stay away from personal comments and man to man full court press.
We all come here to read about things, not about you posters.

[PlatinumZealot]

[quote=Moore77 post_id=947505 time=1609159762 user_id=40399]

Hamilton has enjoyed far superior machinery that he didn't have any role building foundation of it. Hamilton walked into a setup which already had all the required ingredients for success. He simply had to drive the cars that were built by the team. Michael built team around him and involved in all aspects of building the machinery that he drove. If you want, i can repost all those articles that we already went through in the other thread related to Hamilton equalling Michael's records.

Hamilton is just a successful driver, whereas Michael's genius was beyond just the race track. He was the pioneer of physical fitness, team building/bonding and of course an unbelievably quick race driver, probably the quickest that has been.[/quote]

Paddy Lowe and Ross Brawn said otherwise... Listen to the podcast. The 2014 cars had pretty much zero to do with the 2010 to 2012 V8.. And the team didn't even know how well it would go until winter testing. Schumacher had little to do witht he hybrid cars. He was out of that loop for more than two years. Very desperate to think otherwise.

[aral]

Judging by some of the comments here, some people seem to have imbibed too much of the Christmas spirit ! Several trolling comments have been removed. Is too much to ask that you all calm down and post in a reasonable and nonconfrontational manner?

[LM10]

The nature of this thread won’t allow a reasonable and nonconfrontational manner. It’s name alone is asking for the opposite and will crowd nervous fans of drivers x and y to explain day in day out why driver x is better than driver y or how driver y has engineering skills and driver x don’t.
Sadly, it’s off-season and such threads will survive for a longer time.

[sosic2121]

Jeez why so upset man I simply thought the fastest driver of history would have 'geniused' his way to atleast beating Rosberg (a lucky ordinary champion) at even 50, never mind 40. In any case it's a great pity Aldo Costa doesn't agree with you.

He defeated both Hamilton and grandpa Schumacher but he's lucky and ordinary...

[Kingshark]

So do you beleive is an F1 driver debuts at age 28 he will be any better than at 18 or 17?

History has shown this does not hold true.

When the driver is ready for F1, he is ready. Doesn't matter the age, we can compare the rookies just the same.

You completely misunderstood my point.

A driver who debuts at the age of 28 is far less likely to improve over the next 5 years than a driver who debuts at the age of 17. That does not mean he’s going to be a better driver, that has nothing to do with it.

I would even argue that the younger rookies have proven to be better than the older rookies.

That’s because drivers who debut tend to be more talented. Drivers who make their debut at the age of 25 are usually nothing special (Vandoorne, Liuzzi).

I’m not arguing about who is better or worse. I’m saying that younger drivers have a greater potential to improve.

At the age of 17, Hamilton finished third in Formula Renault 2.0
At the age of 22, he matched/beat Alonso in his rookie season

Do you think that Hamilton was the same driver he was at 17 and at 22?

And if your answer is no, what the hell makes you think that Verstappen did not grow as a driver and a man from the age of 17 to 22?

[Just_a_fan]

And if your answer is no, what the hell makes you think that Verstappen did not grow as a driver and a man from the age of 17 to 22?

The big difference for Max was that he did his growing/developing live on international TV every other weekend. The traditional route taken by the likes of Hamilton, Vettel, Alonso and just about every other driver avoids that. They get to make the silly mistakes with only a few hundred hard line motor sport fans watching. Max did it with millions watching. Hats off to him for doing it so well. Many/most would crumble under that pressure.