Post here all non technical related topics about Formula One. This includes race results, discussions, testing analysis etc. TV coverage and other personal questions should be in Off topic chat.
Hamilton and Schumacher are as good as each other, which is not as good as their respective fans think they are.
The true GOAT is Gareth Edwards, if you disagree with me I'll fight you at the bus stop.
This is an F1 site, we do not use bus stops
(Oh, except at Spa or course)
Last edited by Big Tea on 30 Dec 2020, 15:38, edited 1 time in total.
When arguing with a fool, be sure the other person is not doing the same thing.
I am not comparing, I am confidently saying, he did drove dirty in Abu Dhabi in 2016, regardless of how he used his car according your framework of what is dirty or not. He did try to compromise his team mate's situation unethically, put his selfish interest on top of team's and he did disrespect the team management's call. It's a fact, you might not like. As I said earlier, he wasn't put under pressure of losing the title like that ever again, which otherwise, could have resulted in similar behavior, or worse.
Dirty? That was an absolute masterpiece of tactical driving - perfectly clean, no brake testing, Rosberg could have easily drove past if he wanted. Hamilton was playing with Rosberg's doubt - will he crash into me? Will Vettel pass me? - and "driving Rosberg's car for him" as Martin Brundle would say. This is just another genius piece of "driving out of the box" that we don't see very often in this sport.
Somehow this topic has devolved into Lewis Vs Michael again. It confirms that Vettel is no longer in the conversation (literally). So the thread can be concluded.
I am not comparing, I am confidently saying, he did drove dirty in Abu Dhabi in 2016, regardless of how he used his car according your framework of what is dirty or not. He did try to compromise his team mate's situation unethically, put his selfish interest on top of team's and he did disrespect the team management's call. It's a fact, you might not like. As I said earlier, he wasn't put under pressure of losing the title like that ever again, which otherwise, could have resulted in similar behavior, or worse.
Dirty? That was an absolute masterpiece of tactical driving - perfectly clean, no brake testing, Rosberg could have easily drove past if he wanted. Hamilton was playing with Rosberg's doubt - will he crash into me? Will Vettel pass me? - and "driving Rosberg's car for him" as Martin Brundle would say. This is just another genius piece of "driving out of the box" that we don't see very often in this sport.
If that makes you feel happy. If that's how the team would have felt, they wouldn't have asked him NOT to compromise the team result and he need not have to humiliate his team management in front of the world.
Honestly Moore77 if you see Hamiltons driving in Abu Dhabi 16 as bad as Michaels in Adelaide 94 or Jerez 97... <>
You say he tried to steal his team mates championship?? What the hell does that even mean. He went in to the last race of the season with a chance of the championship. I think if anyone did any stealing, it was Rosberg doing it. Wins and poles would suggest that.
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You say he tried to steal his team mates championship??
Nonsense is what it is. holding someone one up, is literally part of what f1 is. Rules exist to ensure it's not taken to far. For example, Vettel did it to Lewis in spa last year, to help Charles.
Honestly Moore77 if you see Hamiltons driving in Abu Dhabi 16 as bad as Michaels in Adelaide 94 or Jerez 97... <>
You say he tried to steal his team mates championship?? What the hell does that even mean. He went in to the last race of the season with a chance of the championship. I think if anyone did any stealing, it was Rosberg doing it. Wins and poles would suggest that.
Simple answer to that is, did the team approve Hamilton's behaviour in that instance?
Last edited by Moore77 on 30 Dec 2020, 17:45, edited 1 time in total.
I had to laugh myself. Hamilton did a master class of defense and tactics. The stewards did not investigate anything as there was nothing to investigate. Hamilton had every right to be champion as rosberg had and backing rosberg up was the only solution. In fact if it were mcihael, he would have tank slapped Nico into retirement and call it a day.
Hamilton painstakingly stuck to the rules of the sport in trying to compromise Nico's race and thats how racing should be.
Teams compromise each other's races all the time, that's what you call strategy.
So abu dhabi is a very weak and desperate example to prove hamilton drives dirty.
As for Vettel, i would say he did a superb job in redbull. I do not think he did any team building or galvanizing, as redbull seems to lead itself with is very talented designers. We have proof of this when it develops cars that outgrew Vettel's comfort zone in 2014.
He was handily more efficient than his trammate Mark Webber and had the backing of the team to get away with a sprinkle of unsportsmanlike behavior.
His championships came with little challenge from teammate. But i think he had a harder time than lewis in individual raced for a few reasons.
He was young and less experienced so his management style eas limited to scampering off in the first 5 laps. But he usually was challeneged by Hamilton, webber and alonso.
He made some spinning mistakes as usual. And also set race errors. as we saw when he lost to Button in Canada and the last few laps.
Brasil 2013 with the spin. And another year sith mistakes in Abudhabi.
Hamilton had it easier simply because he was just so much better as a driver. Less mistakes, better and race management. And teammated rarely caught him back after he leads the first few laps. His most challenging championship year was 2008.
2016 wasnt challenging for him in terms of driving ability. He handily was faster than Rosberg. But got caught out by the new clutvh procedures, reliability issues, and slight strategic and punitive favouring of Rosberg.
But overall people think Hamilton's cars are superior that madr things easier. But it wad easier because the gap in his skillsets to his rivals was much wider than for vettel.
Even now, his rivals are not on the same level. If we look on the combination of skill, talent, experience, consistency, tactics only Alonso has all of these at a level to challenge Lewis.
Max has talent, and skill now. He is still developing experience, tactics and consistency. He may need 2 or 3 more years. And even longer if he doesnt get any serious teammates to stress him. So far he has not been stressed in a championship fight, or any fight to finish ahead of a teammate as the team backs him.
"In the heat of the moment, sometimes when you make decisions you get them wrong," Wolff told Sky Sports F1. "In our mind, the way we think, this race was giving us the same number of points as other races and we try to win that one -- not considering that there was much more at stake for the drivers.
"How the race panned out, we should have communicated differently and in hindsight let them race in the way they deemed to be appropriate."
"In the heat of the moment, sometimes when you make decisions you get them wrong," Wolff told Sky Sports F1. "In our mind, the way we think, this race was giving us the same number of points as other races and we try to win that one -- not considering that there was much more at stake for the drivers.
"How the race panned out, we should have communicated differently and in hindsight let them race in the way they deemed to be appropriate."
Does that in way say, they were happy with Hamilton did? He is Toto and obviously he needed to manage the PR <>. Even when Rosberg <> in Austria 2016, the team didn't ridicule him. Do you think they were happy and Rosberg was innocent?
Does that in way say, they were happy with Hamilton did? He is Toto and obviously he needed to manage the PR for the sh** that his driver rendered. Even when Rosberg fu****d up in Austria 2016, the team didn't ridicule him. Do you think they were happy?
If you want to dabble with conjecture, by all means feel free. Personally, I'll stick to verifiable quotes.
Am I the only one that loved that race? Finally some on track action that added another kind of strategy then trying to get round as fast as possible. On track chess.
Am I the only one that loved that race? Finally some on track action that added another kind of strategy then trying to get round as fast as possible. On track chess.
It was a very interesting race for sure, was gutted with the result though obviously. If I remember, Nico had to be 4th for Lewis to win the championship, what would have made it super exciting would be that Nico only had an 8pt advantage going in to it, and Max was the car behind Nico instead of Seb. I felt Seb didn't really give it a real go.
GoLandoGo
Lewis v2.0
King George has arrived.
New found love for GT racing with Assetto Corsa Competizione on PS5 & PC
