2021 Ferrari F1 Team

[ryaan2904]

Sacking Binotto would be as great a 'mistake' as sacking Abiteboul or Kaltenborn.

Binotto has been nothing but bad for Ferrari ever since he got power to his mind and then given in his hands. Ferrari was growing and becoming stronger under Arrivabene, not under Binotto. Binotto got a lot of credit for his 'tech' expertise, but it's still rather a question whether that's all binotto or much more a case of Ferrari personel being uplifted by Arrivabene's way of working and improving the team. Then internal struggles began to rise, and then it came to the surface between Binotto and Arrivabene. Arrivabene got ditched and then Binotto felt king and all mighty, and single-handedly ruined all that Arrivabene raised the past few years.

Binotto must be send off for Ferrari to rise again. As long as that doesn't happen, Ferrari will remain with their hand tied behind their backs.

What could happen, is that if Alpine turns out to grow to a WDC/WCC competitor soon, under the helm of a capable 'mr Suzuki', then we could see a sudden full-reorganisation @ Ferrari in 2023/2024 where Ferrari snatches Davide Brivio, a bunch of other capable non-ferrari people, and take aboard Mick Schumacher (if he's any good though), and try to recreate the former glory path, coming to senses that they need OUTSIDE capability. It seems Ferrari's structure is self-suffocating and preventing progress and success.

You know, it could just be something much simpler, that Bino as TD, took the wrong development direction since 2019

[ryaan2904]

When everyone else was trying for underfloor df and its subsequent aero dev, Bino invested in illegal engine power and working the rear wing harder rather than the floor

[ryaan2904]

I just think ppl are inserting way more politics here than it ever was

[Manoah2u]

I just think ppl are inserting way more politics here than it ever was

actually, there far more politics going on than you even realize.
there have been various news articles about internal struggles for power, with the main culprit Binotto,
and Arrivabene not wanting to give way and he got ditched.

Ferrari has a potential for people to become involved not only after 'Ferrari politics' but actually into real Italian politics, which is something i wouldn't even be surprised Binotto is chasing more than anything at this point in his life.

Whatever Binotto did or does, he is not fit for the job he currently holds within Ferrari and because of his failure, he can no longer keep that position by any means whatsoever. He needs to leave.

Don't forget the scandal of the illegal stuff and the 'secret' deal with FIA, for which Ferrari was heavily critizised, not the least by former Ferrari big boys who have stated Binotto didn't take that issue in the way it should have been handled and as a result weakened Ferrari.

What we've seen is a tip of the iceberg.

[JPower]

I just think ppl are inserting way more politics here than it ever was

I agree. Nothing new here though. Have to keep busy in between races.

[JordanMugen]

You know, it could just be something much simpler, that Bino as TD, took the wrong development direction since 2019

Agreed.

Regardless, Ferrari's continually poor strategy and pitstops are unacceptable. That has no relation to technical development -- expect for having the right processes to continually tune up the low-friction wheel guns for the relevant ambient conditions at the track! -- and should be at the level of Red Bull or others.

It's racing 101 to be continually tuning and tweaking your wheel guns trackside, to make sure you have 1.9 second pitstops isn't it? With a stopwatch in hand and the test hubs & test wheel nuts heated to the same temperature as those on the car on track, this ensures a "sticky wheel nut"-free pitstop.

It's the basis of Red Bull's fast pitstops, yet Ferrari do not seem to do this, despite it not needing tokens or anything of the sort!

[To be fair, Mercedes also tend to have slow pitstops. ]

I just think ppl are inserting way more politics here than it ever was

It's Ferrari. Surely politics in F1 are as guaranteed, as Ferrari road cars are guaranteed to be thrilling?

[JordanMugen]

Whatever Binotto did or does, he is not fit for the job he currently holds within Ferrari and because of his failure

Bintto has done nothing wrong. Under Binotto, Ferrari has an exciting driver lineup of Leclerc and Sainz, which makes Ferrari well-placed for future success. [I would prefer Leclerc and Ricciardo -- which would make both drivers demonstrably faster than their former overly expensive lead driver , but Ferrari prefers Sainz as they wish -- regardless they have a superb driver lineup.]

The high ability of the engineering department was shown clearly by the consistent improvement of the SF1000 during the season.

The high ability of the commercial department is shown by the assortment of brands on the cars, Phillip Morris, Shell, Ray-Ban etc.

^ On that basis, Arrivabene could not stay as he was overly aligned with Vettel, and his continual defence of Vettel's errors and extension of Vettel and Raikkonen contracts in place of signing consistent, fast and available drivers like Alonso and Ricciardo for the driver lineup was absurd -- having slower and/or mistake-prone drivers, undermines the efforts of the entire engineering department! Leclerc, on the other hand, showed his value in 2020 by his ability to drag a relatively slow car to excellent results.

[aMessageToCharlie]

Sainz is about as exciting as Bottas.

So to sum up your post:

Arrivabene = Vettel = bad
Binotto = Vettel gone = good

[Manoah2u]

Bintto has done nothing wrong.

LOL, Binotto himself admits Binotto has done wrong at Ferrari,
just some 'minor' *cough cough* things, like some comments about the Spa performances a while ago.

Ferrari boss insists that they are working on a solution

The Italian assured the fans that he is not misjudging the gravity of the situation. Instead, he hopes that they can move on from last weekend’s disappointment and do better in the future.

However, he acknowledged that the SF1000 lacked in power and aerodynamics

In other words, yeah, we (read: I) f'd up.

same article

Italian media is very unforgiving and Monza is another circuit where performance is key. Binotto assured that the Maranello squad has a special aero package for Monza.

Let's see what happened. Ah, Seb: Retired. Leclerc: Accident. oups.
Qually then: Vettel: P17
LeClerc? P13.

Oh, Binotto has done nothing wrong

Another article, about dear mr Kral claiming Binotto is facing getting sacked

He took over from Maurizio Arrivabene at the start of 2019, but a disastrous campaign in 2020 saw Ferrari finish in sixth place in the constructors championship - its worst showing in three decades.

WORST showing in 30 !!! years. Nah man, Binotto's doing nothing wrong

Ah, but yeah it's easy speaking with hindsight right?
Gary Anderson, back in 2019, long before the abysmal and embarassing 2020, thinks otherwise:

https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/ander ... 6/5282616/

"Binotto is someone who has been very good at being a technical manager. You've got to allow him to be a technical manager.

"That is a full-time job, seven days a week. It's not a part-time thing.
"That is going to dilute their technical effort for sure.
"I think it's the wrong decision. They should have brought someone else in."

Anderson said: "I don't really see why you would take your best technical person... and put him in a management, political position which is not his forte.

"Why would you do that?"

"What happens at the end of 2019 if Red Bull steps between them and suddenly Ferrari are third or fourth in the championship?

"It could happen. [Then] his head's gonna roll.

OOOPS, 2020, where did Ferrari end up? OOOOUPS 6TH!!!

No man, Binotto has done nothing wrong

But hey, Gary has no idea what he's talking about, right? Neither would Seb Vettel offcourse

https://www.marca.com/en/more-sports/20 ... b4578.html

I dealt with him [Binotto] for the first time when I was at Toro Rosso," Vettel said in an interview with La Gazzetta dello Sport. "I experienced his growth closely, from the engine department to being technical director and now team leader.

He's a pragmatic man and time will tell where Ferrari can go in the future under him."

So how about that Vettel dumping eh?

sources indicate there was no offer made to Vettel because Ferrari boss Mattia Binotto had already made up his mind about Vettel after a 2019 season that featured several points of conflict in the Vettel/Charles Leclerc combination – most infamously in Brazil where the pair made contact, leading to the retirement of both cars.

Good job Binotto, ditch a 4-time WDC which is the guy that got you closer than ever to a potential championship win.
For a spoiled little Monaco brat.

Were there indications Binotto was ever the wrong guy? Yes, it's bonkers that Binotto got made TP, when he has been the culprit of bad decisions for quite a while. Matter of fact, things blew up at Ferrari back when Arrivabene had things in his hands, and who was responsible for the mess even back then? Arrivabene? After all, he took blame himself? No, it was actually BINOTTO. Binotto caused a huge clash in Ferrari, by making a mess of things, and got rewarded TP for it

don't believe me?

https://www.grandprix247.com/2018/10/09 ... t-ferrari/

the late Sergio Marchionne’s big shoes have not been filled, he was the bulldog no one messed with and a big fish in the Formula 1 power stakes battle, but his legacy leaves a team split between the team leadership of Arrivabene and technical responsibilities which is Binotto’s domain.

“Arrivabene, always very protective of his team as the role imposes on him and always sparingly cautious with his comments because Marchionne did not appreciate too many words, this time opened the ‘dressing room’ and summoned the press immediately after the final whistle.”

“When he (Arrivabene) noticed that the inters were on the cars it was he himself who got on the radio immediately and asked the pitwall, led by Binotto, if that was the right call to make.”

it is is also important to notice the faults of the one who manages the technical sector, the too silent Mattia Binotto. It is clear that there has not been the long-awaited update for the car while Mercedes, on the other hand, has clearly improved.”

“Binotto prefers playing hide-and-seek, not explaining when explaining needs to be made....
Come out and tell us because the silence, spontaneous or imposed, creates more confusion"

more?

https://www.racefans.net/2020/07/21/fer ... last-year/

Ferrari team principal Mattia Binotto admitted the rules changes and technical directives arising from the FIA’s investigation were at least part of the reason why his team has slumped since the end of last season.

Mercedes team principal Toto Wolff said any suggestion the technical directives had affected Mercedes’ power units was “complete bullshit”.

“There is a clear regulation on power units. There had been clarification in Austin what is allowed to do or not, which were important, but nothing that was in any way surprising because if you comply to the regulations that was anyway clear.

“I think the irony of the story is that we were pushed by some of our competitors to absolutely new levels. It brought us to almost burnout last year to develop and innovate in a way to be competitive on track. And here we go, I think we made a substantial jump in performance from 2019 to 2020 because we needed to last year. And that is a little bit ironic for me.”

No man, Binotto has done nothing wrong

oh and

Under Binotto, Ferrari has an exciting driver lineup of Leclerc and Sainz, which makes Ferrari well-placed for future success.

REALLY.

Under Arrivabene Ferrari had VETTEL and RAIKKONEN.
2 drivers which together hold up 5 WDC's.

Guess what Ferrari, under Binotto, has now?

0 WDC's.
0 WCC's.

One prima donna who immediately clashed and crashed with same former WDC, and has achieved :
2 wins. 12 podiums.
The other one, Sainz Jr, has: 0 wins.

How many wins did Vettel have under his belt?
53

Yeah, great job to get rid of that guy!
53 wins, 57 pole positions.
14 wins, actually with FERRARI.
54 PODIUMS, with Ferrari.

Oh, but Sainz-Leclerc is exciting

When was the last time Ferrari had ZERO WDC's in their cars?
1995. Yeah, that was a great season.

Alesi-Berger. Pretty much the same as Leclerc-Sainz to be honest, allthough Berger-Alesi were better drivers than what Ferrari has now. 1992-1994 were ultra exciting and ultra succesfull years for Ferrari, right?

[godlameroso]

Sainz is about as exciting as Bottas.

So to sum up your post:

Arrivabene = Vettel = bad
Binotto = Vettel gone = good

I rate Sainz higher than Bottas, and to be frank, Norris has more potential than Bottas. To me Bottas is a Massa in his prime kind of driver. He doesn't have the killer instinct to seize the moment like Alonso or some other extreme personality can. But he is very quick, and can lead from the front, and likely as fast as Hamilton when the conditions are right. Sainz is likely on the level of Riccardo, or a small step below Alonso in his prime, I feel absolutely confident about this statement.

LeClerc is a generational talent, and fully deserves that seat and to lead the team. He trounced Vettel even worse than Ricciardo, and Vettel had the team on his side for half the season.

Riccardo was favored over Vettel, especially when the brass knew he was going to Ferrari, so I can excuse his performance against Riccardo to an extent.

Regarding Binotto, I don't think it is fair to place all the blame on him. He is the team principal, he is the leader, so ultimately the responsibility for the failure falls on him. However, he is not the sole architect of Ferrari's current situation, politics and its effects have longer lead times than power units. It takes roughly 3 to 4 years for a stable organization to enact effective political decisions.

Each time Brawn went on to form a super team, like Ferrari, or now Mercedes, it took roughly 3 years for the stable organization to bear fruit.

Red Bull took 4 years of stability before they could form a dominant package.

Arrivabene was at the helm from 2015 to 2018, in those 3 years he laid the ground work for the current generation of Ferraris. We ended up with a cheat car, an uncompetitive car, and now 2021, the first year Binotto alone can show what he is capable of, because that will be year 3 of a stable organization.

Changing things now would upset that order, and the only reason I could see them sacking Binotto is because the brass has lost all faith in his abilities, not because he wants to be the boss.

[JordanMugen]

Sainz is about as exciting as Bottas.

So to sum up your post:

Arrivabene = Vettel = bad
Binotto = Vettel gone = good

Nothing wrong with having Vettel in the team, but Ricciardo should have been signed for the other car in 2019. Then we would have seen if Ricciardo could produce better results than Vettel. Indeed, there are so many times even before then that Raikkonen shouldn't have been renewed, be it to be replaced by Ricciardo, or Alonso or somebody else -- it appears instead a lacklustre Raikkonen was retained by Binotto to protect Vettel, which is absurd.

Thankfully, promising rookie Leclerc turned out to be able to show the true potential of the Ferrari anyway (just as Ricciardo showed the true potential of the Red Bull many years before!), and Ricciardo wasn't required.

14 wins, actually with FERRARI.
54 PODIUMS, with Ferrari.

It's quite possible that Alonso would have had more -- recall there was a sluggish Raikkonen in the second car, which reduced Ferrari results overall too.

The idea of replacing Alonso with a driver who was defeated so comprehensively by Ricciardo, yet paying said driver a huge salary despite knowing about this defeat was absurd IMO. Top drivers like Prost, Senna or Hamilton were never ever defeated by any teammate to that level, yet Ferrari were paying the kind of salary of such a driver. At least a pairing of Alonso + Vettel should been signed, so Vettel's pace could be evaluated properly.

the first year Binotto alone can show what he is capable of, because that will be year 3 of a stable organization.

Exactly. Binotto is building a solid team.

The poor performance of 2020 is an aberration due to an underdeveloped power unit -- even so, the car's performance improved as chassis developments were added, showing great engineering depth. Being cross about that is absurd, when it will be rectified already by a vastly improved power unit in 2021.

Guess what Ferrari, under Binotto, has now?

0 WDC's.
0 WCC's.

So what? Red Bull had a driver lineup of Ricciardo and Verstappen with 0 WDCs and 0 WCCs, yet Red Bull's combined driver line-up was the best on the grid.

A lineup of Leclerc and Ricciardo (or Leclerc and Alonso) would yet again be the best on the grid, yet Ferrari have chosen Sainz for whatever reason, which Ferrari are entitled to do -- and historically, Sainz was not far off Verstappen when they were teammates, so Sainz is a solid prospect. There was no point in keeping Vettel, Vettel's performances were utterly dismal in 2020 -- for whatever reason Vettel was largely incapable of matching Leclerc's driving technique despite having the data traces, very poor indeed.

I am not convinced Sainz is a better pick than Ricciardo or Alonso for the driver to pair with LeClerc {I am firmly of the belief you must sign the two best drivers available, be it Prost+Lauda, Senna+Prost, Hamilton+Alonso, Ricciardo+Verstappen or whichever}, but Sainz is still a handy talent and a "smooth operator"!

[I was happy to see Vettel win races in 2015 by the way. But you have to remember that when a somewhat slower driver like Patrese, Coulthard or Webber (or at Ferrari, Raikkonen) is in the second car, then a merely 'very good' driver like Mansell, Hakkinen or Vettel becomes your lead driver and championship contender and/or championship winner. With the strength of Mercedes+Hamilton, it turned out that 'very good' was not enough for Ferrari those times despite the Ferrari being quite fast cars -- perhaps Alonso could have done more... We will never know.]

LeClerc is a generational talent, and fully deserves that seat and to lead the team. He trounced Vettel even worse than Ricciardo, and Vettel had the team on his side for half the season.

Precisely!

Ferrari must have known Vettel was not at the "top" level like Prost or Senna (but perhaps rather at the "very good" level more like Hakkinen or Mansell) after they saw him defeated by Ricciardo, yet they signed Vettel to a huge salary and put all their faith in him anyway -- it was very strange decision making, and the continual extensions of both Vettel and also Raikkonen as "wingman" was even more odd. At least if they want to retain Vettel, then bring in Alonso or Ricciardo as a benchmark to reference Vettel's performances too.

Alesi-Berger. Pretty much the same as Leclerc-Sainz to be honest

You seemed to miss the part where Leclerc dismantled a 'very good' 4xWDC, thereby confirming that Leclerc is very close to the 'top' driver bracket of Hamilton and the like, if not in it. Surely it is 'very good' Vettel who is more akin to 'very good' Alesi, with Raikkonen (at the level of Massa, as 2008 showed) being akin to Berger?

So Vettel+Raikkonen is the lineup similar to Alesi+Berger, not Leclerc+Sainz?

[Manoah2u]

Ok now you're just trolling

[adrianjordan]

Ok now you're just trolling

The last few pages of this thread have just been trolling from every angle.

We've moved on from my driver is better than your driver, to my team principle is better than your team principle.

Will the bloody racing just start already pleeeeaaase!!!

[ryaan2904]

Whatever Binotto did or does, he is not fit for the job he currently holds within Ferrari and because of his failure

Bintto has done nothing wrong. Under Binotto, Ferrari has an exciting driver lineup of Leclerc and Sainz, which makes Ferrari well-placed for future success. [I would prefer Leclerc and Ricciardo -- which would make both drivers demonstrably faster than their former overly expensive lead driver , but Ferrari prefers Sainz as they wish -- regardless they have a superb driver lineup.]

The high ability of the engineering department was shown clearly by the consistent improvement of the SF1000 during the season.

The high ability of the commercial department is shown by the assortment of brands on the cars, Phillip Morris, Shell, Ray-Ban etc.

^ On that basis, Arrivabene could not stay as he was overly aligned with Vettel, and his continual defence of Vettel's errors and extension of Vettel and Raikkonen contracts in place of signing consistent, fast and available drivers like Alonso and Ricciardo for the driver lineup was absurd -- having slower and/or mistake-prone drivers, undermines the efforts of the entire engineering department! Leclerc, on the other hand, showed his value in 2020 by his ability to drag a relatively slow car to excellent results.

Actually, arrivabene was there when Leclerc was signed in 2018 and he supported the decision. According to 'The Race' channel, it was Marchionne's decision to bring in a young talented driver because he believed both Vettel and Raikkonen to be underperforming. Makes sense too, Leclerc would replace Raikkonen while threatening Vettel to up his game at the same time.

[ryaan2904]

Though Arrivabene did support Vettel and defended his mistakes most of the times..