Alpine A521

[Blackout]

Why can split-turbo cars dig the undercut of the coke bottle more?


Besides the more compact exhausts, they don't have a compressor-to-exchanger pipe passing there (green)


It seems RB who have a split-turbo but more classic exhaust pipes, take advantage of that area to fit their exhausts as low and as close to the engine as possible.

The comparison shows the more compact exhaust of the RS.20 compared to the 19

[diffuser]

Why can split-turbo cars dig the undercut of the coke bottle more?
https://i.imgur.com/zgFHAmw.jpeg

Besides the more compact exhausts, they don't have a compressor-to-exchanger pipe passing there (green)
https://i.imgur.com/TccharU.jpgµ

It seems RB who have a split-turbo but more classic exhaust pipes, take advantage of that area to fit their exhausts as low and as close to the engine as possible.

The comparison shows the more compact exhaust of the RS.20 compared to the 19

https://i.imgur.com/rJw2yUk.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/OGFIn2U.jpg

I see what you're saying, I disagree it has anything to do with split turbo versus non split. Maybe an attention getting headline?

I just see more money being spent on manpower to find a better solution.

[Blackout]

I see what you're saying, I disagree it has anything to do with split turbo versus non split. Maybe an attention getting headline?

But it is directly related to the split layout : ) although you can place that pipe higher, like STR in the past, or even higher like RB here. But with the split-turbo you still save space in that area and have more options.
Merc and AM clearly use that space to shrink wrap the undercut more around the engine, hence the concave shape on their coke bottle area

[Blackout]

#concave


A W11/RS.20 comparison
The green line on the RS.20 sidepod shows where the W11 undercut is.

Merc does not use black magic to achieve this.
- They use an air-water intercooler hidden between the engine and the monocoque, whereas Renault uses an air-air intercooler at the bottom of each sidepod

- Mercedes radiators are inserted deeper into the extremely hollowed out sides of the Mercedes monocoque. The excavations on the RS tub sides are less deep.
- The Mercedes exhaust pipes merge behind the engine, inside the bellhousing, so they are shrink wrapped around the engine, while those of the Renault are more conventional and merge next to the engine before entering the gearbox casing. They take up more space inside the sidepods.

This comparison also shows that these two cars had quite similar sidepod philosophy...
https://i.imgur.com/X8tUBit.jpg

The W11 was just more aggressive and tight wrapped, thanks also to the aforementioned technical choices + the longer wheelbase.
Even if we assume that both PU's have the same cooling needs, the W11 would still be a little slimmer thanks to these choices.

[Blackout]

Looks like Alpine ditched their unique serrated floor leading edge for a classic one
2020:
viewtopic.php?f=12&t=28773&p=905041&hil ... ed#p905041

2021:


2020:
https://www.racefans.net/wp-content/upl ... 118-15.jpg

[diffuser]

One of the things that struck me this year, was that James Keys said that in going from Renault to Merc PU they had to make the gearbox longer. With the compressor between the ICE and the front wheels, I would have thought, the ICE would be sitting closer to the axle. As you know the ICE and the gearbox are not only the power and drive of the car but the frame as well. That got me thinking that the Merc ICE is shorter Front to back than the Renault?

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It depends on how the Mclaren tub is shaped in 2021 too.. if I undesrtood your message correctly.
If we suppose that Mclaren somehow kept the same tub design as 2020, then yes the 2021 car would be shorter because the Merc PU is shorter front to back, so Mclaren has to lengthen the gearbox casing if they want to retain the same wheelbase...

[diffuser]

It depends on how the Mclaren tub is shaped in 2021 too.. if I undesrtood your message correctly.
If we suppose that Mclaren somehow kept the same tub design as 2020, then yes the 2021 car would be shorter because the Merc is shorter front to back, so Mclaren has to lengthen the gearbox casing if they want to retain the same wheelbase...

@blackout You said "Merc is shorter front to back", you mean the Merc ICE is shorter, right ? I don't think Merc's wheelbase is...

Changing the McLaren tub would have taken another 2 tokens. They used 2 for End of Tub to back. SO the tub HAS to be the same. McLaren did increase the wheelbase a fraction from what I could tell.


I was just following my thinking that Renault didn't spend as much on the packaging of the ICE as RBR or Mercs did. As evidence I'm using that the Merc's ICE is shorter despite having the compressor MGU-H in the middle of it.

[Tooooom]

It depends on how the Mclaren tub is shaped in 2021 too.. if I undesrtood your message correctly.
If we suppose that Mclaren somehow kept the same tub design as 2020, then yes the 2021 car would be shorter because the Merc is shorter front to back, so Mclaren has to lengthen the gearbox casing if they want to retain the same wheelbase...

@blackout You said "Merc is shorter front to back", you mean the Merc ICE is shorter, right ? I don't think Merc's wheelbase is...

Changing the McLaren tub would have taken another 2 tokens. They used 2 for End of Tub to back. SO the tub HAS to be the same. McLaren did increase the wheelbase a fraction from what I could tell.


I was just following my thinking that Renault didn't spend as much on the packaging of the ICE as RBR or Mercs did. As evidence I'm using that the Merc's ICE is shorter despite having the compressor MGU-H in the middle of it.

Apparently Sam Collins said that they had an exemption from the token system by the FIA given the amount of modifications the task required but that they couldn’t do anything else than work on integrating the new engine.
Marc Priestley said they had to change the part of the tub behind the driver to be able to attach the engine because of the split turbo.

[diffuser]

I don't want to go this whole rabbit hole but the exception that McLaren asked for evolved into the token system.

[Blackout]

It depends on how the Mclaren tub is shaped in 2021 too.. if I undesrtood your message correctly.
If we suppose that Mclaren somehow kept the same tub design as 2020, then yes the 2021 car would be shorter because the Merc is shorter front to back, so Mclaren has to lengthen the gearbox casing if they want to retain the same wheelbase...

@blackout You said "Merc is shorter front to back", you mean the Merc ICE is shorter, right ? I don't think Merc's wheelbase is...

Changing the McLaren tub would have taken another 2 tokens. They used 2 for End of Tub to back. SO the tub HAS to be the same. McLaren did increase the wheelbase a fraction from what I could tell.

I was just following my thinking that Renault didn't spend as much on the packaging of the ICE as RBR or Mercs did. As evidence I'm using that the Merc's ICE is shorter despite having the compressor MGU-H in the middle of it.

Yes the Merc power unit is shorter.

Regarding tokens, as said before, every team that opts for a new PU that needs a different tub and a different gbox, give the devloppement tokens back to the FIA and do the necessary changes on the car to accomodate the new PU, even if that requires 2000 tokens on the normal tokens scale... That's the Mclaren case. They virtually spent atleast 4 virtual tokens, changing the tub rear half and the gbox casing to adapt the Merc PU.

[diffuser]

So that means that if Ferrari, with their 2020 seemingly limitless and Capless budget, went to a split turbo....They basically can have a new 2021 car while the rest of the teams work with mods of 2020? Reward by the FIA for cheating?

I mean McLaren aren't the definition of "Daddy warbucks" but Ferrari?

[Tooooom]

I don't want to go this whole rabbit hole but the exception that McLaren asked for evolved into the token system.

Ah didn’t know about that, thanks for the clarification.

[hollus]

A521, thanks.

[PlatinumZealot]

 



what on gods green earth are they trying to achieve... is it me, or is the packaging worse than last year and 2019?... It seems that the sidepods havent shrunk and theyre just more positioned for an overcut, and now they have a massive bulge higher up...

Honestly this season isnt looking amazing. (apart from reliability). Fully expecting them to fight for p6-7 in the championship...

2021 side pod is much smaller.

Look at where the "Renault" is on the side. That area is tightened up a good deal.