US car industry about to break down?

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WhiteBlue
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US car industry about to break down?

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from GP.com
The next earthquake in the automobile world?

Towards the end of last week the accounting firm Deloitte & Touche wrote in an annual report filed with the US Securities and Exchange Commission that General Motors's "recurring losses from operations, stockholders’ deficit and inability to generate sufficient cash flow to meet its obligations and sustain its operations raise substantial doubt about its ability to continue as a going concern".

GM went to the US government with its cap in hand in December and asked for a bridging loan to help it survive. It is now asking for more but US politicians are saying that the firm should get no further federal loans unless there is a viable, long-term business plan that includes repayment of the money. President Barack Obama's administration has declared a March 31 deadline to approve or reject restructuring plans from both GM and Chrysler, which have received more than $17bn in federal loans already and have asked for $21bn more.

GM is a major institution in the United States and its bankruptcy would be a huge blow to American prestige. It would also result in hundreds of thousands of job losses not only in the car companies but also the parts industry as well. The GM share price closed on Friday at $1.45, the lowest price seen since 1933. GM shares have tumbled a startling 93.5% in the course of the last 12 months as investors have lost confidence in the business. GM isw now the world's second biggest car company, although was the leader in sales from 1931 until 2008 when Toyota moved ahead. It manufactures cars and trucks in 34 countries and sells them in 140 countries. It employs 266,000 people. Chrysler and Ford both believe that if GM goes, they too will have to follow into administration. The US car industry could thus be completely reorganised. It would cost hundreds of thousands of jobs and the fear is that the firms would not be able to find the finance to go on and would be carved up or simply closed down. In all probability the US government would have to step in, if only to protect jobs and fund the industry until it was strong enough to be floated off again. The effect on motorsport is frightening to consider. GM in heavily involved with NASCAR and touring car racing outside the US. All of these programmes could be affected by a GM bankruptcy.
This sounds rather ominous. In Germany Opel, the third biggest manufacturer (owned by GM) is asking for governement subsidies of 3 Billions. I do not see how one can grant them without a new ownership that has a sensible new plan.

Much will depend on what Obama decides. I would think that the US has so much fallen behind in petrol efficiency and available small car products that a break up and buy out by Asian and European manufacturers would be the best solution.
Formula One's fundamental ethos is about success coming to those with the most ingenious engineering and best .............................. organization, not to those with the biggest budget. (Dave Richards)

heosat
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Re: US car industry about to break down?

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If GM were still working in a purely capitalist economy, which the USA no longer is, then they deserve to go bust. However, I don't feel the Obama administration will let them fail as there are too many jobs on the line.

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jon-mullen
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Their mode of operating is so horribly flawed I don't know what can be done for them.

You've really got to feel for Obama: neither party has a viable plan and we've given away so much manufacturing business that pumping money into the economy just bleeds more to China, Taiwan, etc.

I'm encouraged by some of the grassroots car developing you can find if you look. It's just a matter of time till they figure out our next transportation fuel and its corresponding infrastructure. In the mean time a few dinosaurs may have to die out.

And on the topic of NASCAR: when there was an oil crisis in 1973 they shortened all the races. Now the economy's really in the tank and they lengthened the UAW-Dodge 400 to the Shelby 427 so they could use the number. (Get it? cu? HA!) Who says the business community is out of touch?
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GTO
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Re: US car industry about to break down?

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...and they want to start a F1 team. Go figure. #-o
It's ironic that the Americans can't make their passenger car industry (which has been around for over 100 yrs.) stand financially stable, but have dreams of making a challenge in F1 in 2010. :wtf:

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jon-mullen
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Well the passenger car industry can't stand because no one has the money to buy new cars. On the other hand to make a challenge in F1 you just need a couple rich guys. That could pretty much be a metaphor for the US: a few rich f**kers driving F1 cars and the rest of us taking the bus.
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GTO
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Re: US car industry about to break down?

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The big three were having financial difficulties long before this financial meldown occured.

nudger
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Re: US car industry about to break down?

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GTO wrote:...and they want to start a F1 team. Go figure. #-o
It's ironic that the Americans can't make their passenger car industry (which has been around for over 100 yrs.) stand financially stable, but have dreams of making a challenge in F1 in 2010. :wtf:

lol, well, the british volume car industry died years ago, but they can still do a reasonable job with racing cars

Conceptual
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Re: US car industry about to break down?

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Reset the credit reporting system, and put the Federal govt. into hibernation until the 2012 election cycle. At that point, the states can weather the storm on a local level, and bridge the gap between trades with local coinage.

THen in 2012, reinstate the US Constitution up to the 10th ammendment, and make any attempted changes instant admission of High Treason.

Then the world can stop hating the American People for what the American Federal Government does all over the world...

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ISLAMATRON
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Re: US car industry about to break down?

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heosat wrote:If GM were still working in a purely capitalist economy, which the USA no longer is, then they deserve to go bust. However, I don't feel the Obama administration will let them fail as there are too many jobs on the line.
The USA was never a "purely capitalist economy" and no country ever has been, they just used the mantra of Capitolism(which supposedly went hand in hand with freedom and democracy, even during slavery & Jim crow) to contrive wars with socialist leaning countries in order to steal their resources.

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ISLAMATRON
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Conceptual wrote:Reset the credit reporting system, and put the Federal govt. into hibernation until the 2012 election cycle. At that point, the states can weather the storm on a local level, and bridge the gap between trades with local coinage.

THen in 2012, reinstate the US Constitution up to the 10th ammendment, and make any attempted changes instant admission of High Treason.

Then the world can stop hating the American People for what the American Federal Government does all over the world...
Yes, exactly, reinstate slavery & destroy all the civil rights bills, that will bring amerikka back to its glory days. Free Labor & no need to educate(or provide any type of social services) to half the population.

Conceptual
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Re: US car industry about to break down?

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ISLAMATRON wrote:
Conceptual wrote:Reset the credit reporting system, and put the Federal govt. into hibernation until the 2012 election cycle. At that point, the states can weather the storm on a local level, and bridge the gap between trades with local coinage.

THen in 2012, reinstate the US Constitution up to the 10th ammendment, and make any attempted changes instant admission of High Treason.

Then the world can stop hating the American People for what the American Federal Government does all over the world...
Yes, exactly, reinstate slavery & destroy all the civil rights bills, that will bring amerikka back to its glory days. Free Labor & no need to educate(or provide any type of social services) to half the population.
True liberal speak.

The 9th and 10th ammendments are broken by the very point that you make, so, is it really worth breaking the Constitution? There is a reason that The USA was the greatest nation on earth, and by violating the founding document, you undercut what made it great.

No matter what your agenda is.

And where did the idea that the Federal Government owes social services to the people? I don't recall that being one of its Constituted powers.

Maybe if you were to actually read it, you would understand a bit more clearly.

xpensive
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Re: US car industry about to break down?

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I think if it wasn't for the future of those employed overseas, the future of the US car industry would be of little more that academic interest to the rest of the world.
By the way, I hear that after losing the Ford ownership, Jaguar is doing pretty good under the circumstances, is that true?
"I spent most of my money on wine and women...I wasted the rest"

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ISLAMATRON
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Re: US car industry about to break down?

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Conceptual wrote:
ISLAMATRON wrote:
Conceptual wrote:Reset the credit reporting system, and put the Federal govt. into hibernation until the 2012 election cycle. At that point, the states can weather the storm on a local level, and bridge the gap between trades with local coinage.

THen in 2012, reinstate the US Constitution up to the 10th ammendment, and make any attempted changes instant admission of High Treason.

Then the world can stop hating the American People for what the American Federal Government does all over the world...
Yes, exactly, reinstate slavery & destroy all the civil rights bills, that will bring amerikka back to its glory days. Free Labor & no need to educate(or provide any type of social services) to half the population.
True liberal speak.

The 9th and 10th ammendments are broken by the very point that you make, so, is it really worth breaking the Constitution? There is a reason that The USA was the greatest nation on earth, and by violating the founding document, you undercut what made it great.

No matter what your agenda is.

And where did the idea that the Federal Government owes social services to the people? I don't recall that being one of its Constituted powers.

Maybe if you were to actually read it, you would understand a bit more clearly.
The only thing that made it "great" was stolen land (and resources) and free(stolen) labor. Give me a business with free Labor and Free resources and see where I can take it. Or see what even GM could do with it... I'm not only pointing the finger at the US... Russia did much of the same, they just went about it in another way and called it something else.

andartop
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Re: US car industry about to break down?

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Should this whole thread be in the "off topic chat" section..?
The most merciful thing in the world, I think, is the inability of the human mind to correlate all its contents. H.P.Lovecraft

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WhiteBlue
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Re: US car industry about to break down?

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I think the issue is relevant for the sport of F1. It is a matter of posting on topic.

Regarding subsidies to automotive companies I am quite negative. It distorts the freedom of trade. If there is a support then it should be available for all manufacturers like the German scrapping rebate.

Presently in Germany if you buy a new car and scrap an old one that you have owned at least 1 year you get 2500€ from the government. It is payed for domestic cars and imports alike.
Last edited by WhiteBlue on 10 Mar 2009, 15:48, edited 1 time in total.
Formula One's fundamental ethos is about success coming to those with the most ingenious engineering and best .............................. organization, not to those with the biggest budget. (Dave Richards)