Vodaphone McLaren Mercedes MP4-24

[vall]

vdemeter:

it may very well be. But... as somebody mentioned, at some point they need to do a quali test. So, even though it is testing and we don't know what they are doing, I will be watching the remaining days and the next test at Jerez with great interest. I don't believe it they are so confident that they will leave the set-up work for the last possible moment - Jerez.

[myurr]

The simplest answer is usually the correct one.

Only in view of all the data - something we don't have the privilege of. For a while we thought the Sun orbited the Earth, and from our point of view it is the simplest explanation... then we got some more data.

[vall]

Some questions:

Do you think Macca have shown so far that they are some 09 spec configuration that kind of works? I mean do they have a back up plan if the things they are trying now do not work as expected? As far as I remember, the only times they were on the pace was when using 08 rare wing.

I am a bit surprised that they are testing so many radically things that late! It seems that they are off phase with everyone else? R29 started bad, but clearly improved. They other looks in a good shape as well, even BGP, who have 2 days of testing only?

[tk421]

I'm a realistic guy. I say don't wait until Melbourne for their real pace (although they could very well show up), but wait until after the third race for their true pace. The real race starts once they get back to Europe, where all the teams usually have major developments. We have (or I have anyway) heard all the teams for a number of years now say 'let's wait until we get back from the flyaway races to see where we really are.' In addition, McLaren is one of the great F1 teams. If they're not with it now, they'll figure it out eventually.

Now that's my objective side The fan in me, the subjective side, hopes that McLaren fails miserably. All the questions about pace, all the debate, all the comments about them 'doing this or doing that during testing,' all the excuses that I've read in this thread---it's McLaren fans' DENIAL!!! And I love it to be honest. And, sadly, as a few people have already done, please don't assume that just because someone doesn't like McLaren means that they are automatically a Ferrari fan! [-X

Before crucifying me for not liking McLaren, go back and read my first paragraph! I'm by no means counting them out because they are one of the great teams in F1. If they are dominant then that's fine, I'll just be an unhappy fan, as many of you were last season or the season before. In other words: c'mon people, we all have teams we root for and against, so you can't get too upset with me about that

[Afterburner]

We're trying to figure out if Mclaren are in a same position has ferrari in 2005, it's very hard to judge where they are know and i don't think anyone will write them off until we see proper racing, if it was a Toyota for example on the same situation i don't have any doubt people would start to writting them off.

I notice that FI will not use kers for the first race at least and i'm seeing that the MP4-24 isn't making long stints even with the new kers cooling openings, can we say it's kers overheating problem like ferrari or are they making heavy setup work?

[gcdugas]

Is the MP4-24 a dog? It seems the only impressive times they ever posted were with the '08 rear wing. Is that a sign of rear aero lacking? Poor Aero balance?

Are they just sand bagging? Is Heikki just that bad? Certainly the Brawn car may be running light, but even the Force India MB car is beating the Mac... what gives?

Lewis isn't smiling either. Trulli is smiling, BMW have been seen smiling even though they are cyborg Germans. I am not looking for swagger, but biting one's nails isn't a good sign either. Renault haven't been seen smiling either. Right now it seems that Red Bull (and therefore STR?) have the edge. Maybe BMW but just maybe. Ferrari seem close but not entirely convincing yet.

[quidam]

Only in view of all the data - something we don't have the privilege of. For a while we thought the Sun orbited the Earth, and from our point of view it is the simplest explanation... then we got some more data.

Some data from MP4-24 march 10 :

10:50h
1.23:296
1.28:187
1.27:232
1.26:250
1.26:132
1.23:240 box

11:40h
1.23:940
1.22:810
1.22:892
1.22:997
1.22:835
1.22:929
1.27:422 box

12:20h
1.22:586
1.22:584
1.22:328 box

12:52h
1.22:731
1.22:828
1.22:371 box

14:40h
1.22:555
1.22:459
1.22:482
1.23:033
1.22:876 box

15:30h
1.27:038
1.23:610
1.23:181
1.23:281
1.23:046
1.26:877 box

16:15h
1.24:778
1.25:348
1.29:941
1.23:805
1.23:802
1.23:644
1.23:815
1.23:057
1.23:137
1.23:148
1.23:839 box

16:44h
1.22:136
1.21:991
1.22:045
1.24:198
1.23:561
1.23:392
1.23:479
1.23:368 box

[gcdugas]

everything is getting more clearer and clearer, mclaren is having problems with the rear end, both on tyre wear as downforce.

I think you are right. They stuck with the '08 wing earlier on for reasons that escape me. If they wanted to set a bench mark with the '08 wing (why I don't know?), it would have only taken a test or two. They used it way more than that and I find that disconcerting. Maybe with every one shifting the CG forward (for the slicks?) Mac moved the aero balance too far forward and now they are "on the back foot" (pun intended).

[gcdugas]

Can we just go back to discussing whats new on the car and what it does?

All this stuff about is it fast or not its total speculation. None of use know how fast it will be. All we can really do is look at what they are doing and talk about the techinical side of the it (thus a technical forum).....

....Sorry to rant, I am just getting bored of this, Whole "is it fast or is it not stuff" cus we just dont have all the facts.

I agree. Let's all speculate on what they are testing and what it does because we certainly have all those facts, right? Not! Let's all speculate on what Sawtooth-spike wants to speculate on because he is bored with anything else.

Tune out if you are bored.

[gcdugas]

Interpolating race performance based on test times is 50% accurate, methinks. IMO, race craft is more significant in determining ontrack success. Last year, Massa placed the most 1st place grid positions, and Kimmi recorded the most fastest times in all race circuits. Despite these, who ended up the WC, and 2nd place the year before last year? Racing is a game of strategy, not of statistics.

Yes! We must ignore the stat which says the FIA stole Ham's Spa victory and gave it to Massa. No sour grapes but theft is theft and stats are stats. Please add the "stolen win/awarded win" stat to your calculations.

I think Nick Heidfeld's finishing position/start position stat was best. Plus he never crashed and finished every race. Would he have the best race craft in your opinion therefore?

Trulli's position/start position stat was likely the worst but can you dismiss his race craft because he qualifies well? Jarno also rarely crashes. Is race craft purely subjective? Can you quantify something qualitative?

I am not being a wise guy here. I am curious and agree with you as to race craft being a neglected item. How do you propose we rate race craft?

BTW, I respect Nick and Jarno very much and used them for illustration purposes. Both could win regularly and contend for championships in a Ferrari or Mac. Jarno beat Fernando straight up before Reggie/Flav dumped him mid 2004 though getting passed by Rubens that year at Magny Cours was inexcusable.

[wesley123]

Only in view of all the data - something we don't have the privilege of. For a while we thought the Sun orbited the Earth, and from our point of view it is the simplest explanation... then we got some more data.

Some data from MP4-24 march 10 :

10:50h
1.23:296
1.28:187
1.27:232
1.26:250
1.26:132
1.23:240 box

11:40h
1.23:940
1.22:810
1.22:892
1.22:997
1.22:835
1.22:929
1.27:422 box

12:20h
1.22:586
1.22:584
1.22:328 box

12:52h
1.22:731
1.22:828
1.22:371 box

14:40h
1.22:555
1.22:459
1.22:482
1.23:033
1.22:876 box

15:30h
1.27:038
1.23:610
1.23:181
1.23:281
1.23:046
1.26:877 box

16:15h
1.24:778
1.25:348
1.29:941
1.23:805
1.23:802
1.23:644
1.23:815
1.23:057
1.23:137
1.23:148
1.23:839 box

16:44h
1.22:136
1.21:991
1.22:045
1.24:198
1.23:561
1.23:392
1.23:479
1.23:368 box

Seems like the macca starts losing speed when it is used more, they start with hig ones, then run 22's but at the end the times are getting slower and slower, possible suspension wear or something?

Woah, i just came up soemthing, note how other people aim their exhaust and compare it to the maclarens. Other temas have it aimed at the rear wing, keeping the lfow away of any suspension part, mclaren isnt doing this, so maybe some sort of problem here?

[andartop]

Is the MP4-24 a dog? It seems the only impressive times they ever posted were with the '08 rear wing. Is that a sign of rear aero lacking? Poor Aero balance?

Are they just sand bagging? Is Heikki just that bad? Certainly the Brawn car may be running light, but even the Force India MB car is beating the Mac... what gives?

Lewis isn't smiling either. Trulli is smiling, BMW have been seen smiling even though they are cyborg Germans. I am not looking for swagger, but biting one's nails isn't a good sign either. Renault haven't been seen smiling either. Right now it seems that Red Bull (and therefore STR?) have the edge. Maybe BMW but just maybe. Ferrari seem close but not entirely convincing yet.

Hopefully. Dunno. Maybe.
Could be. Nooo! Well..
Let's wait and see who'll be smiling after the first race! The real question is: Do we REALLY need an other thread for this? It's all been said an done in the McLaren thread and the Testing thread. Sorry if it sounds like I'm telling you off (which I'm not), but just because you have God's photo on your avatar doesn't mean you ARE Him, right?

[gcdugas]

A diffuser creates its downforce at two points, firstly at the kick-line between the diffuser\floor, then secondly at its leading edge. By effectively moving this leading edge backwards, McLaren are also moving the downforce it creates towards the rear. This may be part of a McLaren strategy to focus downforce production on the front wing and diffuser, as both devices are efficient at creating downforce with little drag. If these two devices can create enough downforce then the rear wing can be smaller reducing drag and gaining speed on the straights.

I think the diffuser is too far in the center of the car to be affected be what goes on way out there. I think it is more a drag reduction effort to clean up turbulence around the wheel.

[Chaparral]

If it barks like a dog then its a dog

[gcdugas]

Sorry if it sounds like I'm telling you off (which I'm not), but just because you have God's photo on your avatar doesn't mean you ARE Him, right?

In God's car too, not that black and gold thing he drove earlier.