Why not print carbon parts at the races?

[SuperCNJ]

I've often wondered why this isn't done or not to my knowledge anyway.

I know that parts are far better quality when manufactured in the factory and delivered to the races, and that often the parts are simply too big and required to be made to very tight tolerances to be feasibly made "on site". But surely there must have been times when say in FP1 where a team realises if only they could have made a small winglet or some small part slightly differently it could make all the difference.

With carbon printing technology getting better each day, I'm just wondering, would it not be useful to have the Engineers back home revise designs, then sending them electronically over to the races to have them printed and fitted? Just curious if this is something that is allowed or perhaps already done. Or is it just naive wishful thinking?

[Rodak]

Fiber orientation and ply thickness are critical to the strength of carbon fiber parts. I don't see how you could 'print' unidirectional tape, etc.

[Jolle]

Even if “printing carbon” would be possible at the moment at the same level as laminated and cured carbon, production of a part is just a small part of the whole design, testing and control system that is in place before something is bolted on.

[PlatinumZealot]

I've often wondered why this isn't done or not to my knowledge anyway.

I know that parts are far better quality when manufactured in the factory and delivered to the races, and that often the parts are simply too big and required to be made to very tight tolerances to be feasibly made "on site". But surely there must have been times when say in FP1 where a team realises if only they could have made a small winglet or some small part slightly differently it could make all the difference.

With carbon printing technology getting better each day, I'm just wondering, would it not be useful to have the Engineers back home revise designs, then sending them electronically over to the races to have them printed and fitted? Just curious if this is something that is allowed or perhaps already done. Or is it just naive wishful thinking?

First of all, what sort of parts are you thinking of printing?

[PhillipM]

Printed carbon fibre parts are just fibre laid in thermoplastics or short strands in resin in the worst case - the properties compared to a moulded pre-peg carbon part are terrible.

[Andres125sx]

I've often wondered why this isn't done or not to my knowledge anyway.

I know that parts are far better quality when manufactured in the factory and delivered to the races, and that often the parts are simply too big and required to be made to very tight tolerances to be feasibly made "on site". But surely there must have been times when say in FP1 where a team realises if only they could have made a small winglet or some small part slightly differently it could make all the difference.

With carbon printing technology getting better each day, I'm just wondering, would it not be useful to have the Engineers back home revise designs, then sending them electronically over to the races to have them printed and fitted? Just curious if this is something that is allowed or perhaps already done. Or is it just naive wishful thinking?

F1 cars do not use printed carbon fiber at all. Printed carbon fiber is not real carbon fiber, as PhilipM just explained printed carbon fiber is just 3d print like any of us can do at home, with some carbon fibers, but it´s still plastic.

Real carbon fiber is lots of layers of carbon woven wich is put on a mold and saturated of high resistance resin and the resistance is several orders of magnitud higher than steel, let alone a plastic print even if it uses some carbon fibers. Not even comparable

[FW17]

Mclaren did a printed floor in 2011 after their octopus exhaust failed and they just copied the RedBull

It was also not made of CF as per commentators

[F1NAC]

Mclaren did a printed floor in 2011 after their octopus exhaust failed and they just copied the RedBull

It was also not made of CF as per commentators

https://cdn-5.latimages.com/images/mgl/ ... aus506.jpg

That was machined from billets of titanium.

[PhillipM]

I think it was actually printed if I remember right - laser sintered from titanium.

[dans79]

I feel the need to correct some misinformation i see in this thread.

Several companies sell continuous fiber 3d printers ranging from prosumer grade machines to industrial grade machines.

For example.



These machines have a few issues though.

• 3d printing is not fast when you want to make large detailed parts. (general 3d printing problem)
• You cannot 3d print continuous fibers anywhere close to the same density as using unidirectional pre-preg
• The plastic used is not nearly as good/strong as the resins used in pre-preg
• You can't get the fiber to resin ratios you can with pre-preg.
• Most importantly all the plys are in a 2d plane, not 3d when you use a mold and actual fiber and resin

[NL_Fer]

More often they put new parts on in FP1 and just monitor the effect. Then send all the data to the factory to have it analyzed and recalculated in the supercomputers. There wouldn’t enough time built a new part and have it fitted for fp3.

[SuperCNJ]

First of all, what sort of parts are you thinking of printing?

Obviously, I wasn't thinking about printing an entire new floor, front wing or engine cover, but small parts that don't need to be super strong such as small winglets. I was thinking that if a designer back home had realised or had a suspicion that a very small tweak to an aero part would make a difference but just didn't have the time to have it tested and made before sending it to the next races, perhaps they could send the design over to have it printed and tested in FP.

Clearly these printed parts will be far inferior in quality, strength, durability and heat resistance compared to parts made in the factory, I get that. But given that teams tweak their aero very subtly all the time, would it not be useful to be able to test various permutations of a concept at one race even if it's just to get some data about how it works. It doesn't even have to last long.

[Jolle]

First of all, what sort of parts are you thinking of printing?

Obviously, I wasn't thinking about printing an entire new floor, front wing or engine cover, but small parts that don't need to be super strong such as small winglets. I was thinking that if a designer back home had realised or had a suspicion that a very small tweak to an aero part would make a difference but just didn't have the time to have it tested and made before sending it to the next races, perhaps they could send the design over to have it printed and tested in FP.

Clearly these printed parts will be far inferior in quality, strength, durability and heat resistance compared to parts made in the factory, I get that. But given that teams tweak their aero very subtly all the time, would it not be useful to be able to test various permutations of a concept at one race even if it's just to get some data about how it works. It doesn't even have to last long.

Nothing will be bolted to the car on a hunch. Everything is tested in CFD, manufactured, tested, signed off on, etc etc. Every small bit on the car is a process that takes months rather then days. The actual manufacturing is the least time consuming of the whole process.
3D printing is ideal for the windtunnel tests and using as a construction method where it gives a clear advantage like internal structure that is otherwise impossible or very complicated. Time is not really the issue.

[joshuagore]

Windform is busy during the season, lots of last minute overnight shipments, don't confuse this with normal SLS, I've benchmarked side by side, its in another league. http://www.windform.com/windform-xt-2-0.html

[PlatinumZealot]

First of all, what sort of parts are you thinking of printing?

Obviously, I wasn't thinking about printing an entire new floor, front wing or engine cover, but small parts that don't need to be super strong such as small winglets. I was thinking that if a designer back home had realised or had a suspicion that a very small tweak to an aero part would make a difference but just didn't have the time to have it tested and made before sending it to the next races, perhaps they could send the design over to have it printed and tested in FP.

Clearly these printed parts will be far inferior in quality, strength, durability and heat resistance compared to parts made in the factory, I get that. But given that teams tweak their aero very subtly all the time, would it not be useful to be able to test various permutations of a concept at one race even if it's just to get some data about how it works. It doesn't even have to last long.

Ok. Reason why I asked was to say you can use more of the common engineering plastics for parts not needing a lot of strength / high temp resistance.

Not an expert but I would think printing speed would be the biggest factor.