2021 Red Bull Racing F1 Team

[wowgr8]

I think Merc feel a tiny sliver of guilt when they have cars like the W11 that kill all excitement and turn 90% of races into borefests, for sure they'd rather cruise to the championships but I think a part of them wants the competition because it makes wins sweeter and gives fans a show

[Kingshark]

I think Merc feel a tiny sliver of guilt when they have cars like the W11 that kill all excitement and turn 90% of races into borefests, for sure they'd rather cruise to the championships but I think a part of them wants the competition because it makes wins sweeter and gives fans a show

When Ferrari and Red Bull dominated the sport, they thoroughly enjoyed their domination and were very unhinged about it. When Mercedes have dominated the sport, they have been overhyping the speed of their rivals and “wishing” that it would be more competitive at the front.

I don’t really believe that Mercedes is any more “honourable” than those teams, they are just more PR-savy. The cynic in me thinks that they hype up the opposition so that the FIA don’t feel the need to make regulation changes.

I remember how unabashed Red Bull enjoyed their dominance in 2011. Who knows, if instead Vettel and Horner spend every race weekend talking about how McLaren are faster than them, then maybe FIA would not have banned off-throttle blown diffusers for 2012?

All hypotheticals

[Lock2nl]

https://www.redbull.com/int-en/redbullracing/red-bull-powert rains-appoints-technical-director?utm_source=RBR_TWITTER&amp ;utm_medium=SOCIAL&utm_content=Web&utm_campaign=Powe rtrainsTechnicalDirector/?

Did Ben go straight to Red Bull after leaving Mercedes? Surely a person with a high role like that would have some kind of non-compete agreement with Mercedes, that prevents him from doing that?

He can't join before 2022 end.

That's what Mercedes wants. However, the default gardening leave lasts only 6 months.
Let us wait and see. I will not be suprised to see him in function at RBPT by the start of 2022.

Question is: how vital was he at Mercedes?

[Wouter]

The 24h Nürburgring Nordschleife Victory for Team Redline!

[tangodjango]

Did Ben go straight to Red Bull after leaving Mercedes? Surely a person with a high role like that would have some kind of non-compete agreement with Mercedes, that prevents him from doing that?

He can't join before 2022 end.

That's what Mercedes wants. However, the default gardening leave lasts only 6 months.
Let us wait and see. I will not be suprised to see him in function at RBPT by the start of 2022.

Question is: how vital was he at Mercedes?

There is nothing called default gardening leave, it is defined contractually and legally. Mercedes in particular is notorious for stipulating extremely long gardening leaves. I guess he was definitely important, one of the department heads at HPP will obviously be important but probably not as big a loss as Andy Cowell. Who knows?

[Zynerji]

I thought the EU put a max on gardening leave under their competition laws...

[Lock2nl]

He can't join before 2022 end.

That's what Mercedes wants. However, the default gardening leave lasts only 6 months.
Let us wait and see. I will not be suprised to see him in function at RBPT by the start of 2022.

Question is: how vital was he at Mercedes?

There is nothing called default gardening leave, it is defined contractually and legally. Mercedes in particular is notorious for stipulating extremely long gardening leaves. I guess he was definitely important, one of the department heads at HPP will obviously be important but probably not as big a loss as Andy Cowell. Who knows?

Hmm... 6 months is good standard in the UK. Anyway, "In respect of long notice periods or fixed term contracts, good procedure dictates limiting a period of garden leave to no more than one year."
That's what I have seen sofar. If the court determines the damage is limited, it does not have to take that long. We will see.

[tangodjango]

That's what Mercedes wants. However, the default gardening leave lasts only 6 months.
Let us wait and see. I will not be suprised to see him in function at RBPT by the start of 2022.

Question is: how vital was he at Mercedes?

There is nothing called default gardening leave, it is defined contractually and legally. Mercedes in particular is notorious for stipulating extremely long gardening leaves. I guess he was definitely important, one of the department heads at HPP will obviously be important but probably not as big a loss as Andy Cowell. Who knows?

Hmm... 6 months is good standard in the UK. Anyway, "In respect of long notice periods or fixed term contracts, good procedure dictates limiting a period of garden leave to no more than one year."
That's what I have seen sofar. If the court determines the damage is limited, it does not have to take that long. We will see.

Yes I think the maximum allowable is a year, unless Red Bull can negotiate for it to be shorter. I remember when James Key left Toro Rosso, Red Bull did not negotiate and he had to serve the full period.

[Kingshark]

There is nothing called default gardening leave, it is defined contractually and legally. Mercedes in particular is notorious for stipulating extremely long gardening leaves. I guess he was definitely important, one of the department heads at HPP will obviously be important but probably not as big a loss as Andy Cowell. Who knows?

Hmm... 6 months is good standard in the UK. Anyway, "In respect of long notice periods or fixed term contracts, good procedure dictates limiting a period of garden leave to no more than one year."
That's what I have seen sofar. If the court determines the damage is limited, it does not have to take that long. We will see.

Yes I think the maximum allowable is a year, unless Red Bull can negotiate for it to be shorter. I remember when James Key left Toro Rosso, Red Bull did not negotiate and he had to serve the full period.

If the maximum allowable garden leave is a year, then how come Ben won’t be able to work with Red Bull for the next 18 months?

[tangodjango]

Hmm... 6 months is good standard in the UK. Anyway, "In respect of long notice periods or fixed term contracts, good procedure dictates limiting a period of garden leave to no more than one year."
That's what I have seen sofar. If the court determines the damage is limited, it does not have to take that long. We will see.

Yes I think the maximum allowable is a year, unless Red Bull can negotiate for it to be shorter. I remember when James Key left Toro Rosso, Red Bull did not negotiate and he had to serve the full period.

If the maximum allowable garden leave is a year, then how come Ben won’t be able to work with Red Bull for the next 18 months?

I'm not sure that 18 months will wash legally. Most likely there will be some public pronouncements of legal action and the whole thing will be settled behind closed doors.

[Just_a_fan]

I thought the EU put a max on gardening leave under their competition laws...

The company (the team) is registered in England. And England, as part of the UK, is no longer in the EU. So not sure if any EU protection still applies. That's one of the current issues in the UK - knowing what EU stuff still applies and what doesn't.

Company info here: https://find-and-update.company-informa ... y/00787446

It's the same company, albeit renamed, with a continuous line all the way back to the formation of Tyrrell in 1964.

Which makes the playing of the German national anthem when they win a bit silly. But that's F1 all over.

[Just_a_fan]

Yes I think the maximum allowable is a year, unless Red Bull can negotiate for it to be shorter. I remember when James Key left Toro Rosso, Red Bull did not negotiate and he had to serve the full period.

If the maximum allowable garden leave is a year, then how come Ben won’t be able to work with Red Bull for the next 18 months?

I'm not sure that 18 months will wash legally. Most likely there will be some public pronouncements of legal action and the whole thing will be settled behind closed doors.

If it's in his contract, and the team meet their side of that contract by paying him, then it might be a waste of money going to court. Proving an unfair contract term, especially if there's lots of money being paid, might be tricky.

[loekf2]

Putting the powertrain division in campus along with the wind tunnel is a pretty nice chess move. Looks like RBR has restructured itself intelligently with regards to the budget cap. While the actual power unit may not change drastically, the installation can always improve.

The wind tunnel is not in MK but in Bedford!

For those who don't know. The windtunnel in Bedford is also used by AT. It's the former Royal Aircraft Establishment Bedford. There were four wind tunnels: the 3x3 supersonic tunnel, the 13x9 low speed tunnel, the 8x8 supersonic tunnel, and the 3x4 high supersonic speed tunnel (HSST). There's also a vertical spinning windtunnel, now used for a skydiving experience. The 13x9 low speed tunnel is used by Red Bull. The facilities date from the late 50s/60s. Research into the Harrier VTOL plane happened there.

See also here:

https://bahg.org.uk/RAEBedford.htm
https://www.bcd-urbex.com/rae-bedford-w ... rleigh-uk/
(showing the not used wind tunnels, now dismantled)

[Lock2nl]

Yes I think the maximum allowable is a year, unless Red Bull can negotiate for it to be shorter. I remember when James Key left Toro Rosso, Red Bull did not negotiate and he had to serve the full period.

If the maximum allowable garden leave is a year, then how come Ben won’t be able to work with Red Bull for the next 18 months?

I'm not sure that 18 months will wash legally. Most likely there will be some public pronouncements of legal action and the whole thing will be settled behind closed doors.

Indeed. I can understand Mercedes does not want him start before the end of 2022 because he has details about the 2022-2025 engines. Not particularly interesting for the latest 2022 Honda engine. But his knowledge will be vital for anything needed from 2025 and onward. And also for the adaptation to the new fuels between 2022 and 2025 he may have some tricks up his sleeve.

[loekf2]

If the maximum allowable garden leave is a year, then how come Ben won’t be able to work with Red Bull for the next 18 months?

I'm not sure that 18 months will wash legally. Most likely there will be some public pronouncements of legal action and the whole thing will be settled behind closed doors.

Indeed. I can understand Mercedes does not want him start before the end of 2022 because he has details about the 2022-2025 engines. Not particularly interesting for the latest 2022 Honda engine. But his knowledge will be vital for anything needed from 2025 and onward. And also for the adaptation to the new fuels between 2022 and 2025 he may have some tricks up his sleeve.

James Key had to stay home for barely 9 months:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Key_(Formula_One). So I also don't believe 18 months. Normally these departures are known internally for much longer, before a press release is sent out.