2021 Alpine F1 Team

[diffuser]

Renault aka Alpine cannot abandon this year for next year success. It won't happen like that. You need to fix your existing issue else it will follow you for next year. Don't know where they are heading for.

Normally that's true. In this case, next year's car will be completely new. Everything from the front wing to the rear wing. Nothing on this year's car will carry over with the exception of the Halo. The whole aero concept is changing so nothing you learn this year will apply to next. Maybe some of the stuff they're doing with the floor around the rear tires....But then the diffuser is getting much larger next year....

[SmallSoldier]

Renault aka Alpine cannot abandon this year for next year success. It won't happen like that. You need to fix your existing issue else it will follow you for next year. Don't know where they are heading for.

They don’t need to fix their “race car” current issues in order to be successful next year... Cars are completely different philosophies, very little learning from 2021 can be applied to 2022.


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[Pany]

In this case is not really important what yoi can lern, but how you lern and experiment. They need to improove their car develoment program

[SmallSoldier]

In this case is not really important what yoi can lern, but how you lern and experiment. They need to improove their car develoment program

I’m sure there are a lot of things that they can improve from an operational and execution stand point and working on how to improve their procedures, organizational structure, etc is something that they obviously need to work on... But there is no need to heavily invest time and resources on this year’s car.

With limited amount of CFD, the more it can be invested for the 2022 car the better positioned they will be towards the future.


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[Redragon]

Renault for years have same issue which is when car in windtunell is hit with direct airflow it works well, but the moment they try simulate tires and wheels turning aka sideways airflow it gets disrupted and car suddenly starts losing downforce and you have disturbent and not consistent airflow all over the car.

Hence why they have issues fixing their track performance. They can't bring up many updates all in once or speed them up. They need to go through series of checklists and bring each by each to see what works and what doesnt. It overall hurts team in car development.

They also have issue with ideology of developing car. Mercedes does one thing really well, Red Bull does it own really well. Ferrari has most money so they can do whatever f they want. Renault doesnt do anything well and they arent interested in spending whatever f they want to fix issues.

So problem is I dont know? Ambition? Money? Lack of competent staff? Who knows. They banking everything on 2022 and they likely write off 2021 long time ago. Those who followed Renault for some time know 2021 was gonna be rough year due corona and new regs delay.

So why they have reformed all the Viry-Châtillon factory and renew and update to today standards all the engine development building. Which has been opened recently, 1 year later than expected because Covid?

I don't want to defend Neno but.....he didn't say they didn't have the latest tools just they didn't know how to use them.....The reality is it was a budget thing.They just didn't have the budget. Then again none of the remaining 6 teams (7 with Alpine) could keep up with the top 3 budgets either. Sure they're not gonna have any problems getting to 145M this year, 140 next and 135 the year after.

Maybe I understood wrong the post, my bad. It is clear that this year is going to be to smooth the protocol factory to track, to maximise from the design, to the making, to the track and correct all the correllations wind tunnel to truck. Also they have already played down next year by estimating just a couple of victories if possible. I hope for the good of the sport and team that the jump of concentration of this year on to the next one does really pay for them and others that are in same situation. What it is encouraging is the update of all the Viry-Châtillon engine factory, despite been really hit by covid, not having much money under last management and the F1 budgets going down.

[Jambier]

When was the last good chassis from we stone?
2012-2013

Then 2020 was OK. But even with everything on 2022 I’m not confident.
There is no proof of signal that they are able to build something good.

I mean they can build a decent car for 2022 but I don’t see them anywhere better than 5th place.

[diffuser]

From that interview with. Alonso being Godfather to everyone, you get the impression there is a lot of very young staff at both Enstone and Vire. Sure they don't want to put too much pressure at once. More of a gradual build.

[Neno]

Renault aka Alpine cannot abandon this year for next year success. It won't happen like that. You need to fix your existing issue else it will follow you for next year. Don't know where they are heading for.

There is literally no n fixing this year car because current car is heavily based on 2019 car which was already ultimately really flawed concept and which got Nick Chester ultimately fired from his job. Last 3 car iteration share all same chassis. And last two share exact same engine. There is no fixing it even if they wanted it. Rules dont allow it, tokens dont allow it.

And Renault, now Alpine knew that. They just didnt expect some other teams put huge resources into this year like Toro Rosso did. Which btw share last year Red Bull car concept and parts + Honda engine. And they didnt expect Ferrari to put huge resources into new power train along new car for just one year car development.

Overall Covid messed up Renault plans big time. Because they cut costs in 2019 for 2020 using same chassis for development so they can focus on 2021 new regulations, which at the end got delayed another year. Nothing else and nothing more.

[tangodjango]

Renault aka Alpine cannot abandon this year for next year success. It won't happen like that. You need to fix your existing issue else it will follow you for next year. Don't know where they are heading for.

There is literally no n fixing this year car because current car is heavily based on 2019 car which was already ultimately really flawed concept and which got Nick Chester ultimately fired from his job. Last 3 car iteration share all same chassis. And last two share exact same engine. There is no fixing it even if they wanted it. Rules dont allow it, tokens dont allow it.

And Renault, now Alpine knew that. They just didnt expect some other teams put huge resources into this year like Toro Rosso did. Which btw share last year Red Bull car concept and parts + Honda engine. And they didnt expect Ferrari to put huge resources into new power train along new car for just one year car development.

Overall Covid messed up Renault plans big time. Because they cut costs in 2019 for 2020 using same chassis for development so they can focus on 2021 new regulations, which at the end got delayed another year. Nothing else and nothing more.

Yup and irrespective of budget cap, aerodynamic knowledge they don't have now will still be aerodynamic knowledge they don't have in the future and it's not as simple as hiring some big names from other teams in the future because their knowledge might not translate well to Renault's setup and processes, on the other hand it's possible though unlikely that they might find something that other people overlook because of experience.

[selvam_e2002]

Renault aka Alpine cannot abandon this year for next year success. It won't happen like that. You need to fix your existing issue else it will follow you for next year. Don't know where they are heading for.

There is literally no n fixing this year car because current car is heavily based on 2019 car which was already ultimately really flawed concept and which got Nick Chester ultimately fired from his job. Last 3 car iteration share all same chassis. And last two share exact same engine. There is no fixing it even if they wanted it. Rules dont allow it, tokens dont allow it.

And Renault, now Alpine knew that. They just didnt expect some other teams put huge resources into this year like Toro Rosso did. Which btw share last year Red Bull car concept and parts + Honda engine. And they didnt expect Ferrari to put huge resources into new power train along new car for just one year car development.

Overall Covid messed up Renault plans big time. Because they cut costs in 2019 for 2020 using same chassis for development so they can focus on 2021 new regulations, which at the end got delayed another year. Nothing else and nothing more.

I agree. If they learn from their mistake then it is good. They need to come up with new ideas and innovations for 2022 else Alonso will be signing off in F1.

[Hoffman900]

Renault aka Alpine cannot abandon this year for next year success. It won't happen like that. You need to fix your existing issue else it will follow you for next year. Don't know where they are heading for.

There is literally no n fixing this year car because current car is heavily based on 2019 car which was already ultimately really flawed concept and which got Nick Chester ultimately fired from his job. Last 3 car iteration share all same chassis. And last two share exact same engine. There is no fixing it even if they wanted it. Rules dont allow it, tokens dont allow it.

And Renault, now Alpine knew that. They just didnt expect some other teams put huge resources into this year like Toro Rosso did. Which btw share last year Red Bull car concept and parts + Honda engine. And they didnt expect Ferrari to put huge resources into new power train along new car for just one year car development.

Overall Covid messed up Renault plans big time. Because they cut costs in 2019 for 2020 using same chassis for development so they can focus on 2021 new regulations, which at the end got delayed another year. Nothing else and nothing more.

Yup and irrespective of budget cap, aerodynamic knowledge they don't have now will still be aerodynamic knowledge they don't have in the future and it's not as simple as hiring some big names from other teams in the future because their knowledge might not translate well to Renault's setup and processes, on the other hand it's possible though unlikely that they might find something that other people overlook because of experience.

This.

If teams struggle in the current rules, they’ll struggle in the new. The physics that apply to the current cars will apply to the next. It’s not like teams are sitting on their hands thinking “well, I’ll try when the rules change”.

[selvam_e2002]

There is literally no n fixing this year car because current car is heavily based on 2019 car which was already ultimately really flawed concept and which got Nick Chester ultimately fired from his job. Last 3 car iteration share all same chassis. And last two share exact same engine. There is no fixing it even if they wanted it. Rules dont allow it, tokens dont allow it.

And Renault, now Alpine knew that. They just didnt expect some other teams put huge resources into this year like Toro Rosso did. Which btw share last year Red Bull car concept and parts + Honda engine. And they didnt expect Ferrari to put huge resources into new power train along new car for just one year car development.

Overall Covid messed up Renault plans big time. Because they cut costs in 2019 for 2020 using same chassis for development so they can focus on 2021 new regulations, which at the end got delayed another year. Nothing else and nothing more.

Yup and irrespective of budget cap, aerodynamic knowledge they don't have now will still be aerodynamic knowledge they don't have in the future and it's not as simple as hiring some big names from other teams in the future because their knowledge might not translate well to Renault's setup and processes, on the other hand it's possible though unlikely that they might find something that other people overlook because of experience.

This.

If teams struggle in the current rules, they’ll struggle in the new. The physics that apply to the current cars will apply to the next. It’s not like teams are sitting on their hands thinking “well, I’ll try when the rules change”.

well said. 100% true and to the point. Thanks.

[SmallSoldier]

There is literally no n fixing this year car because current car is heavily based on 2019 car which was already ultimately really flawed concept and which got Nick Chester ultimately fired from his job. Last 3 car iteration share all same chassis. And last two share exact same engine. There is no fixing it even if they wanted it. Rules dont allow it, tokens dont allow it.

And Renault, now Alpine knew that. They just didnt expect some other teams put huge resources into this year like Toro Rosso did. Which btw share last year Red Bull car concept and parts + Honda engine. And they didnt expect Ferrari to put huge resources into new power train along new car for just one year car development.

Overall Covid messed up Renault plans big time. Because they cut costs in 2019 for 2020 using same chassis for development so they can focus on 2021 new regulations, which at the end got delayed another year. Nothing else and nothing more.

Yup and irrespective of budget cap, aerodynamic knowledge they don't have now will still be aerodynamic knowledge they don't have in the future and it's not as simple as hiring some big names from other teams in the future because their knowledge might not translate well to Renault's setup and processes, on the other hand it's possible though unlikely that they might find something that other people overlook because of experience.

This.

If teams struggle in the current rules, they’ll struggle in the new. The physics that apply to the current cars will apply to the next. It’s not like teams are sitting on their hands thinking “well, I’ll try when the rules change”.

The physics are the same, but the aero is completely different... There is no point on Alpine to spend more time than needed understanding their bargeboard arrangement better than last year (the Bargeboards are gone), there is no need to spend too much time in understanding how to better seal the floor and the diffuser (there will be Venturi tunnels instead, there is no need to spend too much time improving the vortexes coming out of the Y250 area (there won’t be a Y250 area next year), there is no need to spend too much time on improving their rear wing end plates (next year the rear wing won’t have this end plates).

The knowledge gained for this year’s car in terms of aero si more or less useless for 2022 and with how limited CFD is, they are better of using every minute available to understand and work on the 2022 aero concept.

The only potential knowledge that you can carry is in regards to suspension and packaging, but there isn’t a lot that you can with either on 2021 cars because of the token system.

So no, spending time developing the 2021 car isn’t worth it if the trade off is taking time away from developing the 2022 cars.


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[diffuser]

Yup and irrespective of budget cap, aerodynamic knowledge they don't have now will still be aerodynamic knowledge they don't have in the future and it's not as simple as hiring some big names from other teams in the future because their knowledge might not translate well to Renault's setup and processes, on the other hand it's possible though unlikely that they might find something that other people overlook because of experience.

This.

If teams struggle in the current rules, they’ll struggle in the new. The physics that apply to the current cars will apply to the next. It’s not like teams are sitting on their hands thinking “well, I’ll try when the rules change”.

The physics are the same, but the aero is completely different... There is no point on Alpine to spend more time than needed understanding their bargeboard arrangement better than last year (the Bargeboards are gone), there is no need to spend too much time in understanding how to better seal the floor and the diffuser (there will be Venturi tunnels instead, there is no need to spend too much time improving the vortexes coming out of the Y250 area (there won’t be a Y250 area next year), there is no need to spend too much time on improving their rear wing end plates (next year the rear wing won’t have this end plates).

The knowledge gained for this year’s car in terms of aero si more or less useless for 2022 and with how limited CFD is, they are better of using every minute available to understand and work on the 2022 aero concept.

The only potential knowledge that you can carry is in regards to suspension and packaging, but there isn’t a lot that you can with either on 2021 cars because of the token system.

So no, spending time developing the 2021 car isn’t worth it if the trade off is taking time away from developing the 2022 cars.


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Even the suspension is changing (18" wheels) and Hydrolics no longer allowed.

[diffuser]

There is literally no n fixing this year car because current car is heavily based on 2019 car which was already ultimately really flawed concept and which got Nick Chester ultimately fired from his job. Last 3 car iteration share all same chassis. And last two share exact same engine. There is no fixing it even if they wanted it. Rules dont allow it, tokens dont allow it.

And Renault, now Alpine knew that. They just didnt expect some other teams put huge resources into this year like Toro Rosso did. Which btw share last year Red Bull car concept and parts + Honda engine. And they didnt expect Ferrari to put huge resources into new power train along new car for just one year car development.

Overall Covid messed up Renault plans big time. Because they cut costs in 2019 for 2020 using same chassis for development so they can focus on 2021 new regulations, which at the end got delayed another year. Nothing else and nothing more.

Yup and irrespective of budget cap, aerodynamic knowledge they don't have now will still be aerodynamic knowledge they don't have in the future and it's not as simple as hiring some big names from other teams in the future because their knowledge might not translate well to Renault's setup and processes, on the other hand it's possible though unlikely that they might find something that other people overlook because of experience.

This.

If teams struggle in the current rules, they’ll struggle in the new. The physics that apply to the current cars will apply to the next. It’s not like teams are sitting on their hands thinking “well, I’ll try when the rules change”.

Lets see how the top 3 do with cutting their budgets in half and reducing thier staff in half and 20% less wind tunnel time than Alpine. Easy to be a aero genius when you've got 2 people for every person Alpine has doing the same job.

Once upon a time it was a big advantage having a Newey. You could pay Newey and still have double the personnel working at RBR than Alpine. Today his salary counts towards the CAP, not having a salary of $10M a year, maybe Alpine can hire 20 to 40 more staff. The great equalizer has arrived.

Whatever your experience with F1 over the last 10 years no longer applies. The playing field has changed.

New sliding scale on aerodynamic 
testing in F1.

2020    2021    2022-2025
1	90%	70%
2	92.5%	75%
3	95%	80%
4	97.5%	85%
5	100%	90%
6	102.5%	95%
7	105%	100%
8	107.5%	105%
9	110%	110%
10+ 	112.5%	115%

Last year, Renault finish 21 points behind Mclaren for 3ird. Most of their points came from 1 driver. That 1 driver had more points than any other driver in the midfield with the exception of Perez. If Renault would have gotten more points from their 2nd driver, they could have easily finished 3ird. So there was nothing wrong with their aero in 2020 or at least nothing more wrong than any other team in the midfield.

Again, they are only 3 points behind where they were last year after 2 races.