Formula E - Folrmula1 comparison, Monaco 2021 edition

[hollus]

I thought this was better in its own thread than in the Formula E thread, as it is quite a bit about F1 (maybe F2?) too...

So, Formula E is coming to the full Monaco track for the first time ever. And thus we can compare F1 and FE like for like. No, nobody is expecting performance anywhere near F1 performance... except... what about past F1?

Racefans has one of its excellent changing tracks articles on Monaco, unfortunately the track maps seem to be broken:
https://www.racefans.net/2010/05/14/cha ... nte-carlo/
It says that the last major change was in 1973, with the addition of the swimming pool "chicanes".
Other changes happened to some corner profiles, but some worth a coulple of seconds of lap time, but good enough for this comparison.

So, what can we expect the pole time for Formula E to be and, what "year" of F1 does that match? (We'll get comparisons with lower categories than F1 as well?).

A caveat would be that Formula E cars do not have the range for a 78 lap event, but in justice, and going to past years, neither did F1 cars on many, many occasions.

So, here is a list of pole times in past F1 Monaco GPs (only new record times):

Year: Driver.              Lap time
1973: Jackie Stewart.      1:27.5
1974: Nicki Lauda.         1:26.3
(times slow down as St. Devote is tightened, poles in the 1:29 range)
1980: Didier Pironi.       1:24.8
1982: René Arnoux.         1:23.2
1984: Alain Prost.         1:22.6
1985: Ayrton Senna.        1:20.4
(Times slow down, Nouvelle Chicane added)
1991: Ayrton Senna.        1:20.3
1992: Nigel Mansell.       1:19.4
1994: Michael Schumacher.  1:18.5
1997: H-H Frentzen.        1:18.2
2001: David Coulthard.     1:17.4
2002: J.P. Montoya.        1:16.6
2003: Ralf Schumacher.     1:15.2
2004: Jarno Trulli.        1:13.9
2005: Kimi Raikkonen.      1:13.6 (1st lap)
2011: Sebastian Vettel.    1:13.5
2017: Kimi Raikkonen.      1:12.1
2018: Daniel Ricciardo.    1:10.8
2019: Lewis Hamilton.      1:10.1

[hollus]

My guess: 1970s. Thinking that there are enough ultra-slow bits where aero barely counts and that those things accelerate quite OK. This is still a street circuit in the old twisty sense. After all.
But I also kind of expecting to be embarrassed by more than 10 seconds... do we need more bins in the poll?

[Hoffman900]

What is the FE cars weight wise compared to F1. How about wheel base?

If they're smaller and lighter, there is a chance they would be closer than one might imagine (close being a relative term).

edit: looked it up... and I thought the F1 cars were pig heavy.

[jjn9128]

I'd expect them to be 25-30s off the pace of F1, so low 1.40s to high 1.30s. Not that I think that matters as they'll actually put on a race rather than the annual F1 procession

[hollus]

And where will they have the big pile-up?

[jjn9128]

And where will they have the big pile-up?

Lowes, or whatever it's called now, on lap 1

[MtthsMlw]

Portier sounds like safe bet

[Rodak]

It would be interesting to see F4 times; I suspect they might be quicker. F3 definitely would be.

[jjn9128]

I don't think it matters. Formula E is it's own beast. Why compare it to something else? Laptime being over emphasised is what gave us the current crappy F1 regs.

[MattWellsyWells]

Aren't they cutting Sainte Devote? So that might knock off a few seconds.

[jjn9128]

Aren't they cutting Sainte Devote? So that might knock off a few seconds.

Nope. They used to cut Sainte Devote and run backwards up the harbour front to the chicane (which became a hairpin) this year they're running the full Grand Prix track. Hence the thread

[Jolle]

last time they did around 50 seconds on half the circuit, so... how much faster are these cars? I guess around 1:30 to 1:40 ish? (Porsche supercup times)

[senja]

They could do much better with slick tires...
FE cars are narrower and shorter. That is some advantage. But they are too heavy because of batteries. They have good acceleration. F1 top speed in Monaco is about 290 km/h. FE is limited to 280 km/h. I think the biggest disadvantage are tires.

I think the real comparison will be with Gen3 cars, but only on slow tracks like Monaco.

[Andres125sx]

Considerting last time in Monaco they went at around 160km/h around swimming pool while F1 went around 240km/h... I´ll say 1:45, but if I get it right I´ll be first surprised

[henry]

70s F1 cars were 300kW and around 600kg in qualifying. The FE cars are 250kW and 900kg.

Although the FE have a wider power band I think they’ll struggle to match the 70s F1 performance. Unless of course the tyres are better in which case they’ll be able to make full use of the low speed Tractive effort. They also will gain some time from the lack of gear changes which cost time back in the seventies.