Rear wing flex and FIA regulatory test 2021

[RZS10]

Didn't people claim that the Merc rear wing was "cornering" last season or 2019? I think it was Silverstone ...
Is the new test just aiming at the tilt backwards or also around the center when looking from above?

[Hoffman900]

Didn't people claim that the Merc rear wing was "cornering" last season or 2019? I think it was Silverstone ...
Is the new test just aiming at the tilt backwards or also around the center when looking from above?

Yeah, our good buddy Nugnes did, so take it with a grain of salt.

The FIA mentioned even using cameras as enforcement mechanisms. Which flies in the face of godlameroso

The FIA rule on this:

"In order to ensure that the requirements of Article 3.8 are respected, the FIA reserves the
right to introduce further load/deflection tests on any part of the bodywork which appears to
be (or is suspected of), moving whilst the car is in motion."

[Marty_Y]

In addition to more stringent static loading tests, could the new tests planned to prevent wing displacement also include some kind of real-time monitoring of wing movement during the race weekend? If the FIA mandated the placement of fiducials on the rear and front wings in standard locations then it might be possible to measure deflection (noise notwithstanding) using the standard cameras (or perhaps with additional standard sensors) and altert the teams when limits are exceeded significantly.

This would be subject to some difficulties (noise, lighting, signal loss, wing damage due to crashes etc..) but the FIA already use real-time monitoring of multiple car parameters during the race weekend.

In this article it mentions using cameras to monitor the behaviour of the wings.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/57086036

"In addition to new, more targeted static tests, the FIA plans to use on-board cameras to monitor the behaviour of wings while cars are in motion in an attempt to spot any excessive movement of bodywork.

Teams will be required to put a series of markings on their wings to facilitate this process."

[Blackout]

Dont underestimate the squatting effect and the parallax effect

Counterpoint to this is the Williams rear wing in Bahrain which appears to be completly immovable compared to the others ... i'll try to find it and put the lines on that thing

You can add the Ferrari video too. If you take the exhaust pipe as a reference - which is as distant the the T-cam as the RW-, it doesnt move, while the wing does, a lot. So no parallax effect here. #flexing_wing

[RZS10]

I'd love to do a current Ferrari.

edit: here it is

Dont underestimate the squatting effect and the parallax effect

Counterpoint to this is the Williams rear wing in Bahrain which appears to be completly immovable compared to the others ... i'll try to find it and put the lines on that thing

Ok i was wrong, it's less and the wing just isn't flapping about as much as the others.



But regarding the "it's just the squat" claim - what does it mean for a car where the suspension travel is a multitude higher than the wing tilt? What's happening there? Is the wing moving upwards? Strange.



This alone shows that this assumption is just plain wrong.

It's also very easy to show that none of the other elements of the bodywork move relative to the camera:



"Also, the shark tip on the engine cover moves down" - nope, it absolutely doesn't.

Edit2:
Here's all of them for comparison

[dans79]

The rear suspension squat is just going to add to the effect of the wing flexing, further altering the AOA.

[SiLo]

The rear suspension squat is just going to add to the effect of the wing flexing, further altering the AOA.

Can you explain why it would please?

[SmallSoldier]

Just completely ignore the sharkfin, it's is a but not the relevant reference point, the lines are 'fixed' to the camera, the camera is fixed to the chassis, so the only movement can be that of parts that aren't rigidly attached to it, which is the wheel and suspension assembly and any part which can flex, which in this case are the wings which is very clearly visible in the footage.

https://i.imgur.com/nQ7HWRg.png

I doubt good ol' Giorgio would mind me using his old sketch.

Top pic - car at low speed, not squatted.

2nd pic - car squatted at high speed, rigidly attached non-flexing wing, the red line 'moves with the squat' if you will - the blue line was the old one before squatting.

3rd pic - wing tilting via support pillar around point 1

4th pic - wing tilting via attachment point to support pillar around point 2

From the footage i'd say that McL, Merc and Alpine are more point1, RBR is a mix of 1&2.

Another little thing
https://i.imgur.com/y3Lrjaa.gif

p.s.: i wish i was as confident in being blatantly, provably and objectively wrong ... lol

Great post, it illustrates the point perfectly and the last GIF explains how the suspension travel is not related to the rear wing movement.

[SmallSoldier]

Have you tried it? I get it's in fashion to contradict me, Hamilton fans live up to his message of understanding and inclusivity, truly makes me feel like we race as one!

Even better if you have a go pro, or small camera you can mount. Then everything is fixed on the same perspective. Post results I don't mind being wrong. So far I show logic and reasoning behind my opinion, use as many facts as possible. Avoid he said she said stuff, like quoting an entire Matt Sommers article that has nothing to do with the issue at hand.

I have a feeling you're focusing on my finger and not what it is pointing at.

I am focusing on what I am seeing, and thats long before you arrived with your new theory. I feel it's you that is focusing on the finger and not what everyone else is pointing at. If your theory was correct, then more cars would 'appear' to flex as much as RedBull, why would they be any different. I think you are wrong here like you were with the RB16b's pace in the last race.

Umm Ferrari, Alpine, McLaren ALL exhibit the same exact behavior, why would all high rake cars behave the same? Gee I wonder if high rake cars all squat at speed. Short memories guys you already forgot Ferrari testing in 2019.

Ferrari isn’t a “low rake car” and doesn’t show as much flexing as the others (RBR, Alpine)... Even Mclaren shows less flexing from all the footage we’ve seeing so far... Williams isn’t a “low rake car” and doesn’t show flex like others.

[FW17]

Baffles me how it is possible

The wing is supported in the center, yet claimed that it flexes in the center while the ends stay up. Is there lift being created at the ends?

[RZS10]

The upper part of the endplates move with the entire wing though?

The rear suspension squat is just going to add to the effect of the wing flexing, further altering the AOA.

Can you explain why it would please?

It's an added effect, the AOA on the wing will get lowered with the squat already, an additional flex then lowers it even further.

It's a bit exaggerated here viewtopic.php?p=970967#p970967 but the difference between the blue and red line would show the change in AOA

Or here:
In the lower pic the red line is parallel to the ground.
in the upper pic the car has squatted, the red line was moved with it, the difference in AOA on the rear wing is between the red line and the blue one (which is now parallel to the ground.

[PhillipM]

Nah it flexes down at the sides too, it just seems to bow down a little at the centre and that flexes the endplates in at the top - which might be how they're passing the tests, the endplate flex wouldn't happen with the current test rig that has a bar across the plates, and bowing the plates would reduce their vertical stiffness quite a bit.

[SmallSoldier]

The rear suspension squat is just going to add to the effect of the wing flexing, further altering the AOA.

Can you explain why it would please?

It will compound the effect... If the wing would be rigid, the car “squatting” on the straights would make the wing change it’s angle of attack since the whole car is pivoting rearwards, the car “pivots” around the front suspension since it is stiffer (doesn’t squat) as much as the rear suspension does.

The flex on the rear wing is also changing the angle of attack of the wing (regardless of suspension motion).

Both effects work together to reduce the drag impact of the rear wing.

[dans79]

The rear suspension squat is just going to add to the effect of the wing flexing, further altering the AOA.

Can you explain why it would please?

All f1 cars squat under aero load. If the front and rear squated an equal amount The AOA would stay constant relative to the oncoming air flow.

However, since all teams run the front as low as they possibly can, the front of the car always squats less than the rear, this means that entire car pitches/rotates downwards at the rear. This changes the AOA relative to the oncoming air flow.

This is one of the benefits of running a high rake car, They squat more at the rear than a low rake car, thus changing the AOA more.

[godlameroso]

I am focusing on what I am seeing, and thats long before you arrived with your new theory. I feel it's you that is focusing on the finger and not what everyone else is pointing at. If your theory was correct, then more cars would 'appear' to flex as much as RedBull, why would they be any different. I think you are wrong here like you were with the RB16b's pace in the last race.

Umm Ferrari, Alpine, McLaren ALL exhibit the same exact behavior, why would all high rake cars behave the same? Gee I wonder if high rake cars all squat at speed. Short memories guys you already forgot Ferrari testing in 2019.

Ferrari isn’t a “low rake car” and doesn’t show as much flexing as the others (RBR, Alpine)... Even Mclaren shows less flexing from all the footage we’ve seeing so far... Williams isn’t a “low rake car” and doesn’t show flex like others.

Are you kidding? I don't mind a bit of trolling but the Ferrari wing moves nearly the same as the RB one. The shark fin tip and the rear wing flap are displaced very similarly.