BrawnGP

[timbo]

There's been a recent breakthrough that I read about using another similar lithium battery technology that can obtain full charge in a fraction of the time: http://hardware.slashdot.org/article.pl ... 11/2222216

That's interesting! Thanks for the link!

[rjsa]

KERS what a furphy I doubt it will be around in 2 years - why even bother with it if F1 is 'appearing to be going greener' why not go to a E85 fuel (85% ethanol/15% high octane) - same power - 20% less mileage per tank or at least thats what they are finding in the testing for this years V8 Supercar Series about to start downunder - KERS and its application hasnt been thought through by Moley and the FIA.......................

Highier compressin rate, more power also.

[axle]

IMO, The problem with E85 and "advertising" it is the fact the world cannot produce enough of it, so it's a bit foolish to say look how green we are using this fuel, that you can't...

People can however use Hybrid systems and to a degree to sex them up via F1 is a good thing for the manufacturers. Hybrids are sustainable as they are making use of Kinetic energy rather than trying a new fuel type that can't catch on.

KERS and HERS are about engery recovery, making far more use of the energy expelled...rather than using a greener but less sustainable substance on the first place.

I agree though, KERS hasn't been given enough scope.

[ISLAMATRON]

And btw, the whole idea of KERS is intended to make the cars go "greener" not faster, because F1 cars can INSTANTLY go faster if FIA remove the restriction on engine rev.

I agree fully, we all know that revs etc are regulated on saftey issues (as was the reason for groved tyres etc....). The point ISLAMATRON was trying to make was (I think) that with such tight regs it might be a good idea to have one performance area where teams can spend their money making BIG differences not tiny changes chasing 1/100ths of a second.

KERS is going to be a massive factor next year if the refuelling ban goes ahead, imagine if you can start the race with 10-15kgs less fuel than others, because you can reuse so much energy and save so much fuel. And guess what - now you got the greener racing that will filter to road cars in the future.

Exactly as in bold... it seems that all of you have forgotten that it was the teams and not Max Mosley who regulated KERS to the point of insignificance. Mosley is already calling for bigger more powerful KERS. It was the big leading teams save for BMW who could not see the writing on the wall. This mindset goes back to when turbo's were introduced, there were teams who embraced them and flourished and teams who instead of taking on the challenge on track decided to fight it in a political way. More and more fuel was taken away from the turbo'd cars and they still dominated till they were banned.

What the hell is wrong with using energy that would otherwise be wasted as heat? So what if it only saves .2L a lap(could be alot more if the teams did not castrate it). Every Engineer is foremost concerned with efficiency... give me the most of anything for the least amount of work. Hybrids shut off their engines at red lights, so what if it only saves a couple drops of gas... that --- adds up... and that's less gas to carry around thus saving you even more gas, it compounds itself.

CHT, what you are not understanding is that with or without KERS the teams are still carrying ballast to reach the 605kg minimum weight. Why not have carry something that can boost your power output instead of dead weight. Again it was the teams who castrated KERS from the start, not the FIA... and if you open the engine revs restriction then they wont last as long... KERS makes the cars greener & faster, whereas higher revs makes the cars faster & less green... both make them more expensive.

Why is this being discussed? lol
Why would teams use KERS to power the car and save fuel when they could use both KERS and engine for more power! Its F1 racing not bloody solar powered racing in Australia. haha

Because at a certain point the extra weight of the fuel becomes a detriment and the the smaller powered but lighter cars would overtake the heavier ones... for an example of this see how the P2 class of Le Mans racing can sometimes take the overall wins on some tracks.

[Moanlower]

Amen to that ISLAMATRON.

[xpensive]

Aiming to advertize my own pet-thead on the subject, the 400 kJ per lap of KERS-energy is less than peanuts in the context, when refuelling 80 liters of gasoline (at 10 kWh/liter) is the equivalent of 3 million kJ of energy, give or take.

If you can accomplish that in 8 seconds, we are talking about a power transfer of almost 400 MW, or 550 000 Hp, try to beat that with an electric cord.

[Moanlower]

Aiming to advertize my own pet-thead on the subject, the 400 kJ per lap of KERS-energy is less than peanuts in the context, when refuelling 80 liters of gasoline (at 10 kWh/liter) is the equivalent of 3 million kJ of energy, give or take.

If you can accomplish that in 8 seconds, we are talking about a power transfer of almost 400 MW, or 550 000 Hp, try to beat that with an electric cord.

Great numbers. I don't think anyone disagrees with the fact the the 400 kj is still very small compared to the 800+bhp fuel engine. Thats not the goal either if i'm not mistaken. First of all it's a new and cleaner power source that is being tested and meanwhile used to enhance overtaking.

I'm sure in a couple of years from now the output of this technology will be much greater than what you get from a combustion engine which is quite primitive no matter how advanced you make it.

[xpensive]

Thanks moan. However, as I tried to explain on my thread on the subject, the major energy-loss is not from accellerating an F1 car to a certain speed, but to maintain it, where recovery of kinetic energy, even if 100% efficient, will never be the big thing Max and others seem to believe.

[ISLAMATRON]

Thanks moan. However, as I tried to explain on my thread on the subject, the major energy-loss is not from accellerating an F1 car to a certain speed, but to maintain it, where recovery of kinetic energy, even if 100% efficient, will never be the big thing Max and others seem to believe.

F1 needs a total paradigm shift.

If they instate a maximum downforce level then the teams will work to lower the Cd and thus make the cars easier to push thru the air. Right now KERS is only implemented on the rear wheels, when we all know a majority of the braking is done by the fronts, imagine if they were to abolish braking altogether and the only reduction in speed could be accomplished by regen braking. Together with DI turbo'd engines with a set maximum amount of fuel HERS, KERS, movable aero, and whatever other effiency ideas the engineers can think of would lead to a next level formula which would finally take us out of the technology of the mid nineties into today's technology. That formula would lead to cars just as fast as todays and be several orders of magnitude more efficient than the current formula.

Xpensive, the problem is not that KERS will never be as big as some percieve it to be, the problem is that the current paradigm to which F1 cars are designed is too constrictive to allow it to thrive. Finally the FIA is allowing new tech to enter the sport, instead of banning it as it did with active suspension, TC, LC, ABS, ground effects, moveable aero, mass dampers and so much more. But yet many of the fans of F1 are opposed to the addition of the new tech after complaining that the sport was stagnant for so long. Pick a side, do you want F1 to be stuck in the mid nineties for decades to come like how NASCAR tech is stuck in the sixties or do you want progress, regardless of how little fuel it will save?

[xpensive]

Can we continue this on the other thread Islam, "To optimize energy..."?

[ISLAMATRON]

agreed

[Stef]

This is legal ?

[ISLAMATRON]

This is legal ?

Who knows, i'm blinded by all the angles on that front wing. I think we seen a winglet on the front upright b4 havent we?

[twoshots]

Looks as though it's on the inside wheel cover

[allan]

mclaren and ferrari are using a similar device, so i guess it is