Rear wing flex and FIA regulatory test 2021

[RZS10]

It's not a "narrative" it's observable facts - there's enough posts in this thread that show that the wing's movement has absolutely nothing to do with the suspension, so there's no reason to rehash already disputed talking points

[Just_a_fan]

I have to ask. Isn't part of this vertical displacement narrative down to differing setups in the rear suspension?. From the video it looks like it's far stiffer on Merc perhaps to improve rear stability - a problem the Merc had in preseason testing.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YBWUefS ... tsRacingF1

Regardless, it will be interesting to see if they find anyone in violation of their new tests.

As has been explained ad nauseum, the wing is movingvrelative to the camera and this movement is independent of the suspension movement.

[godlameroso]

It's not a "narrative" it's observable facts - there's enough posts in this thread that show that the wing's movement has absolutely nothing to do with the suspension, so there's no reason to rehash already disputed talking points

Yes 4 pixels are all the proof you need. You know that those 4 pixels represent an illegal displacement of the wing.

[peaty]

That's about last year's wing anyways and the video that gossip is based on is a few posts up and there's no consistent dipping into corners ... but goes to show how easy one can convince people without evidence if they're susceptible enough based on 'team loyalty' ...lol

Base on a few post up!? The evidence from last year are similar to the evidence from this year! All of them come from TV images provided by F1!

By the way, regulations don't talk about consistency or dipping into corners, regulations talk about flexing. Did the wing flex!? Yes, it did. So there's no debate about that! We can talk about how much flexing, the mode, etc but not if they were flexing.

The FIA started looking into this in mid/late June last season. By mid July they already had tougher load tests planned to prevent F1 teams using flexible rear wings. They didn't implement any change until May 2021, almost a year later!
As I said before, this is not about taking actions, it's about how and when! And we all know about the how and when!

1. Why are you yelling (!) ?
2. I replied to the posts about the supposed "snap tilt on turn in" right above the post you quoted
3. I did post a gif and the video (the source for Nugnes speculation) which shows that the wing flexes so i don't understand why you think that i believe it wouldn't flex?
4. The consistency of the tilting is definitely a factor to determine how 'wanted' the flexing is, if a wing drops by an inch and stays in that position on the entire straight it's better designed and specificly designed to do it, if it wobbles it's either not as well designed and/or some of the flexing is incidental (but not detrimental to performance).

Speaking of which: Last year's Merc wing looks like it tilted more than this year's wing, however this year's wing seems more consistent in the way it dips.

As you write we can only compare the amount of flex, the consistency etc and we know that all of that was perfectly fine according to the previous tests, but we don't know whether any of the wings from this or last year would fail the new test and by how much.

The timeline is indeed interesting, some here seem to believe that the FIA came up with new tests on the fly simply because one driver (LH) mentioned those wings when in reality it must have been planned long ago, Wolff and Horner admittedly talked about this even before those statements to the media so they knew it was coming.

Why they are introducing the tests now is something we can only spectulate about ...

Did (more) teams start bending the rules (pun intended) further than the FIA deems acceptable?
Did it take that long to come up with the exact specifics of the test (loads, positions etc) to limit flexing to an acceptable amount?
Of course some will believe that the FIA doesn't want to RBR to be successful but that's terrible tinfoil territory.

The timeline could have deeper implications. Yes, the new test was planned long ago yet the FIA didn't implement it until a driver (LH) mentioned those wings. We have to wonder why. That's the real question of the whole things.
The rest is just a waste of time.
Remember, it's not the decision but the time and form.

[El Scorchio]

Base on a few post up!? The evidence from last year are similar to the evidence from this year! All of them come from TV images provided by F1!

By the way, regulations don't talk about consistency or dipping into corners, regulations talk about flexing. Did the wing flex!? Yes, it did. So there's no debate about that! We can talk about how much flexing, the mode, etc but not if they were flexing.

The FIA started looking into this in mid/late June last season. By mid July they already had tougher load tests planned to prevent F1 teams using flexible rear wings. They didn't implement any change until May 2021, almost a year later!
As I said before, this is not about taking actions, it's about how and when! And we all know about the how and when!

1. Why are you yelling (!) ?
2. I replied to the posts about the supposed "snap tilt on turn in" right above the post you quoted
3. I did post a gif and the video (the source for Nugnes speculation) which shows that the wing flexes so i don't understand why you think that i believe it wouldn't flex?
4. The consistency of the tilting is definitely a factor to determine how 'wanted' the flexing is, if a wing drops by an inch and stays in that position on the entire straight it's better designed and specificly designed to do it, if it wobbles it's either not as well designed and/or some of the flexing is incidental (but not detrimental to performance).

Speaking of which: Last year's Merc wing looks like it tilted more than this year's wing, however this year's wing seems more consistent in the way it dips.

As you write we can only compare the amount of flex, the consistency etc and we know that all of that was perfectly fine according to the previous tests, but we don't know whether any of the wings from this or last year would fail the new test and by how much.

The timeline is indeed interesting, some here seem to believe that the FIA came up with new tests on the fly simply because one driver (LH) mentioned those wings when in reality it must have been planned long ago, Wolff and Horner admittedly talked about this even before those statements to the media so they knew it was coming.

Why they are introducing the tests now is something we can only spectulate about ...

Did (more) teams start bending the rules (pun intended) further than the FIA deems acceptable?
Did it take that long to come up with the exact specifics of the test (loads, positions etc) to limit flexing to an acceptable amount?
Of course some will believe that the FIA doesn't want to RBR to be successful but that's terrible tinfoil territory.

The timeline could have deeper implications. Yes, the new test was planned long ago yet the FIA didn't implement it until a driver (LH) mentioned those wings. We have to wonder why. That's the real question of the whole things.
The rest is just a waste of time.
Remember, it's not the decision but the time and form.

There's no way they acted solely on a line from Hamilton in a post race interview. Much more likely it had been a discussion point behind the scenes and he mentioned it because he knew it was to be implemented imminently.

[SiLo]

I am absolutely certain this is just a timing thing, and Mercedes has been sitting on it until a time that it benefits them to get the rules around rear wing flex looked at more closely. Just so happens they are in a title fight with Red Bull, and this makes it easier for them to move resources to 2022 sooner.

[Hoffman900]

I am absolutely certain this is just a timing thing, and Mercedes has been sitting on it until a time that it benefits them to get the rules around rear wing flex looked at more closely. Just so happens they are in a title fight with Red Bull, and this makes it easier for them to move resources to 2022 sooner.

Which is exactly what you do.

I can think of a SCCA Nat'l Championship where a driver knew a certain engine builder was pushing the grey area. He waited until the Championship race, mass protested everyone with that engine builder, and like the 5th place finisher or something ended up winning due to the rest (and several others) being DQ'ed. Low blow? Maybe, but if you're going to play in the grey area, expect to be called out on it at the least inopportune time. The FIA has been talking about this for almost a year now... RedBull (and others) had plenty of time to reduce how extreme it flexed, instead they kept doing it. They have a history of playing in the grey with flexing wings... they HAVE to know every other team is looking at their car for that.

I personally think they should have saved it for the fast tracks, which would hopefully drawn less attention to it by not being on the car all the time.

[RZS10]

The timeline could have deeper implications. Yes, the new test was planned long ago yet the FIA didn't implement it until a driver (LH) mentioned those wings. We have to wonder why. That's the real question of the whole things.

Ah yes, the TTT ... the timing has absolutely nothing to do with Lewis mentioning it, he did not trigger the implementation of the new tests - the mere fact that team principals were talking about it previously means that it was supposed to happen before he mentioned the wing to the media.

edit: messed up an edit ... lol

[Hoffman900]

The timeline could have deeper implications. Yes, the new test was planned long ago yet the FIA didn't implement it until a driver (LH) mentioned those wings. We have to wonder why. That's the real question of the whole things.

Ah yes, the TTT ... the timing has absolutely nothing to do with Lewis mentioning it, he did not trigger the implementation of the new tests - the mere fact that team principals were talking about it previously means that it was supposed to happen before he mentioned the wing to the media.

This and everyone saw it on RB's car last year at Austria, but the F1 media circus has an attention span of 1-2 weeks, so it was quickly forgotten.

I was surprised it was still happening to that extreme after last year. I thought the rumors of FIA changing the test and public attention (albeit, brief) would be enough for RB to at least dial it back some. Seems like they doubled down on it and here we are...

[peaty]

1. Why are you yelling (!) ?
2. I replied to the posts about the supposed "snap tilt on turn in" right above the post you quoted
3. I did post a gif and the video (the source for Nugnes speculation) which shows that the wing flexes so i don't understand why you think that i believe it wouldn't flex?
4. The consistency of the tilting is definitely a factor to determine how 'wanted' the flexing is, if a wing drops by an inch and stays in that position on the entire straight it's better designed and specificly designed to do it, if it wobbles it's either not as well designed and/or some of the flexing is incidental (but not detrimental to performance).

Speaking of which: Last year's Merc wing looks like it tilted more than this year's wing, however this year's wing seems more consistent in the way it dips.

As you write we can only compare the amount of flex, the consistency etc and we know that all of that was perfectly fine according to the previous tests, but we don't know whether any of the wings from this or last year would fail the new test and by how much.

The timeline is indeed interesting, some here seem to believe that the FIA came up with new tests on the fly simply because one driver (LH) mentioned those wings when in reality it must have been planned long ago, Wolff and Horner admittedly talked about this even before those statements to the media so they knew it was coming.

Why they are introducing the tests now is something we can only spectulate about ...

Did (more) teams start bending the rules (pun intended) further than the FIA deems acceptable?
Did it take that long to come up with the exact specifics of the test (loads, positions etc) to limit flexing to an acceptable amount?
Of course some will believe that the FIA doesn't want to RBR to be successful but that's terrible tinfoil territory.

The timeline could have deeper implications. Yes, the new test was planned long ago yet the FIA didn't implement it until a driver (LH) mentioned those wings. We have to wonder why. That's the real question of the whole things.
The rest is just a waste of time.
Remember, it's not the decision but the time and form.

There's no way they acted solely on a line from Hamilton in a post race interview. Much more likely it had been a discussion point behind the scenes and he mentioned it because he knew it was to be implemented imminently.

I haven't hear anything yet regarding Mercedes (or any other team) protesting or seeking clarification. That's why it's so worrying.
Even if he knew it was to be implemented imminently you still have to wonder why now and not at the end of last season or even mid season last year.

[peaty]

I am absolutely certain this is just a timing thing, and Mercedes has been sitting on it until a time that it benefits them to get the rules around rear wing flex looked at more closely. Just so happens they are in a title fight with Red Bull, and this makes it easier for them to move resources to 2022 sooner.

did Mercedes protested the wing or seek clarification!? That will make sense but I haven't hear any of those.

[Hoffman900]

The timeline could have deeper implications. Yes, the new test was planned long ago yet the FIA didn't implement it until a driver (LH) mentioned those wings. We have to wonder why. That's the real question of the whole things.
The rest is just a waste of time.
Remember, it's not the decision but the time and form.

There's no way they acted solely on a line from Hamilton in a post race interview. Much more likely it had been a discussion point behind the scenes and he mentioned it because he knew it was to be implemented imminently.

I haven't hear anything yet regarding Mercedes (or any other team) protesting or seeking clarification. That's why it's so worrying.
Even if he knew it was to be implemented imminently you still have to wonder why now and not at the end of last season or even mid season last year.

If something is pushing the grey area (ie: it's illegal, but there is no way to enforce it currently) and there is a provision in the rules allowing the sanctioning body to find a new way to enforce it at anytime, then you have to be okay with the fact that it can happen at any time. The grace period is super generous and it doesn't have to be. The FIA is totally in their right to ban it immediately.

[RZS10]

You know that those 4 pixels represent an illegal displacement of the wing.

I know it's not really worth replying to this but here i go: read what i wrote properly. Nowhere do i write that anything we can observe could be used to determine whether any of the wings are legal or illegal.

You can watch the videos and the wings' movement is absolutely evident without any gifs or lines, those just point out what is happening in the videos they're sourced from and it helps seeing the extent of any flexing that is going on (on all the wings) - you don't need to count pixels for that, but i know that it's your cheap way of dismissing the very clear evidence ... lol

At this point i'm not sure whether you're just merely pretending, or?

[peaty]

The timeline could have deeper implications. Yes, the new test was planned long ago yet the FIA didn't implement it until a driver (LH) mentioned those wings. We have to wonder why. That's the real question of the whole things.

Ah yes, the TTT ... the timing has absolutely nothing to do with Lewis mentioning it, he did not trigger the implementation of the new tests - the mere fact that team principals were talking about it previously means that it was supposed to happen before he mentioned the wing to the media.

How do you know he didn't? As you said we only can speculate about that.
We have known about this for a year (FIA included). I think they have had more than enough time to make the changes. For a year the FIA didn't move a finger. Mercedes mentioned the wings to the media and the changes are implemented. Do you really think there's no connection there? C'mon...
The connection is evident. That shouldn't be a problem if Mercedes protested or seek clarification. Did they do any of that!?

[RZS10]

The answer as to why it is extremely unlikely is literally in the post you quoted.