2009 Testing - March (Jerez & Barcelona)

[bmw fanatic]

Crazy thought - I wonder if Brawn are deliberately running underweight and with an illegal diffuser (allegedly) knowing that their diffuser is going to get banned at the first race. Thus they can demonstrate funadmental pace, attract sponsors, and then blame their subsequent lack of pace on the banned diffuser.

Or maybe they really are just that quick.

the diffusers should be legal. most teams used the same loophole last year and the FIA have already given them the wink. it would be extremeley unfair and unpopular for them to penalise the underdogs for good ideas. dont think the other teams have a leg to stand on.

[vall]

I would thinks they are quick. But how much more then the rest, have no idea. Showing good race pace and a potential is the ultimate way to get sponsors. They may be running a bit light and stand out. If they are as fast as the big teams or even slightly behindsin Aus, then they say. Well, testing is one thing, racing another, but we have good pace and potential to develop.

So, unless they are badly off the pace in Aus, they will be fine

[vall]

I didn't follow this all diffuser story. Is there a tread or other place to read about it?

[myurr]

http://en.f1-live.com/f1/en/headlines/n ... 2908.shtml

[vall]

I was looked at the photos at the first page. It seems that McLaren have the highest nose cone middle section of all all and that the exhaust pipes stand out of the body more than other cars. IS the second one search to more DF?

[vall]

yeah, I read that story, but what exactly is the problem?

[jwielage]

As a Ferrari fan, I'm not happy about this, but I'm less happy at the thought that the FIA will step in and suddenly declare some Brawn components illegal. And YES, if the only way to beat Brawn is to politic against his team, then so be it. The goal is to win by whatever means, not to lose graciously.

What I find interesting is that the three most recent teams to win Drivers or Constructors championships have not updated their diffuser designs. It could be that these designs would be incompatable with some other parts on their chassis, or it may be something more tactical. This could be because they think they will be banned. I believe that they may argue that these diffuser designs will undermine the efforts of the working group that was assigned to improve overtaking. Maybe they will suggest that a more stringent interpretation of the technical regs is appropriate on light of the overtaking initiative.

Would anyone with some solid aero knowledge be able to add some insight? Do we think these diffuser designs would increase turbulance left in the car's wake?

[bmw fanatic]

As a Ferrari fan, I'm not happy about this, but I'm less happy at the thought that the FIA will step in and suddenly declare some Brawn components illegal. And YES, if the only way to beat Brawn is to politic against his team, then so be it. The goal is to win by whatever means, not to lose graciously.

What I find interesting is that the three most recent teams to win Drivers or Constructors championships have not updated their diffuser designs. It could be that these designs would be incompatable with some other parts on their chassis, or it may be something more tactical. This could be because they think they will be banned. I believe that they may argue that these diffuser designs will undermine the efforts of the working group that was assigned to improve overtaking. Maybe they will suggest that a more stringent interpretation of the technical regs is appropriate on light of the overtaking initiative.

Would anyone with some knowsolid aero ledge be able to add some insight? Do we think these diffuser designs would increase turbulance left in the car's wake?

no solid aero knowledge though my geuss is that it does create more drag therefore more turbulence.you dont need to be an aerodynamicist to know that the more effective the wing the more turbulence would be created. the greater the surface area of the wing the more drag it creates. or at least thats my understanding. also this issue has been put to bed hasnt it. the teams were told that williams and toyota were well within the rule bearing in mind that last year at least half the grid had exploited this very same loophole cleary setting precedence. as i said before i dont think the moaners have a leg to stand on. personally i thought that all teams had one stashed away and were mereley not willing to let on their true motives. However it has become clear that most teams have been totally blind sided and missed the loophole. im half expecting most of the grid to have them on by melbourne but everyday this seems more and more unlikely

[Scotracer]

A more "effective" (read: efficient) wing should produce less drag (turbulence) for the same amount of lift. But diffusers work on a very different principle.

The better the diffuser the more efficiently it generates a pressure gradient towards ambient pressure. A big diffuser can do this better than a small one.

[jwielage]

A more "effective" (read: efficient) wing should produce less drag (turbulence) for the same amount of lift. But diffusers work on a very different principle.

The better the diffuser the more efficiently it generates a pressure gradient towards ambient pressure. A big diffuser can do this better than a small one.

Great info, if only I could understand it....

Scotracer, would you mind putting that in laymen's terms if it is not too much trouble. Thanks!

[Scotracer]

A more "effective" (read: efficient) wing should produce less drag (turbulence) for the same amount of lift. But diffusers work on a very different principle.

The better the diffuser the more efficiently it generates a pressure gradient towards ambient pressure. A big diffuser can do this better than a small one.

Great info, if only I could understand it....

Scotracer, would you mind putting that in laymen's terms if it is not too much trouble. Thanks!

The idea behind a diffuser is to allow the air under the car (which is going faster; therefore has a lower pressure - this creates the downforce) to be reintroduced to the ambient air behind the car (slower speed, higher dynamic pressure). To do this, they must create what is in effect a divergent nozzle. The more efficient this is, the more efficient the total underbody is (higher mass flow can travel under the car) therefore more downforce. A better diffuser can also reduce drag by increasing the pressure of the air directly behind the car - reduce form drag (this is caused by overall pressure difference between the front and back of the car).

Hope that makes sense

[alelanza]

Well, if this video is anything to go by, Rubens' quiet and calm happinness plus crew attitude tell me it's no fake. Also note close up of mclaren sensor cage and williams wheel fairing.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=999pNkBN ... r_embedded[/youtube]

EDIT: it also seems to me the rear end of all cars is significantly more planted than it seemed back in Jan. Then again they have much better weather, but still i think strong gains have been made in that department

[jwielage]

The idea behind a diffuser is to allow the air under the car (which is going faster; therefore has a lower pressure - this creates the downforce) to be reintroduced to the ambient air behind the car (slower speed, higher dynamic pressure). To do this, they must create what is in effect a divergent nozzle. The more efficient this is, the more efficient the total underbody is (higher mass flow can travel under the car) therefore more downforce. A better diffuser can also reduce drag by increasing the pressure of the air directly behind the car - reduce form drag (this is caused by overall pressure difference between the front and back of the car).

Hope that makes sense

A more "effective" (read: efficient) wing should produce less drag (turbulence) for the same amount of lift. But diffusers work on a very different principle.

The better the diffuser the more efficiently it generates a pressure gradient towards ambient pressure. A big diffuser can do this better than a small one.

Great info, if only I could understand it....

Scotracer, would you mind putting that in laymen's terms if it is not too much trouble. Thanks!

The idea behind a diffuser is to allow the air under the car (which is going faster; therefore has a lower pressure - this creates the downforce) to be reintroduced to the ambient air behind the car (slower speed, higher dynamic pressure). To do this, they must create what is in effect a divergent nozzle. The more efficient this is, the more efficient the total underbody is (higher mass flow can travel under the car) therefore more downforce. A better diffuser can also reduce drag by increasing the pressure of the air directly behind the car - reduce form drag (this is caused by overall pressure difference between the front and back of the car).

Hope that makes sense

Very helpful, thanks =D>

[Conceptual]

I think that it has more to do with the lower "mid-wing" supercharging the steeper diffusor profile.

Can anyone confirm any new pieces on the Brawn at Jerez? Like a cleaner packaging at the rear of the car???

[kilcoo316]

it would be extremeley unfair and unpopular for them to penalise the underdogs for good ideas. dont think the other teams have a leg to stand on.

Absolutely spot on.


I could not agree more.