Observing ever increasing flexibility in rear wings of some Formula One cars, the FIA has decided to try to reduce this flexibility by introducing new deflection tests.
The question is if they are passing whatever load tests the FIA are using, how do you determine what is “taking the piss” and what is “acceptable”; because neither is within the ‘spirit of the rules’ which calls for bodywork to be “rigid with reference to the spring platform of the car”?
The front wing flaps aren't tested at all. The FIA has only been testing the main plane, to prevent teams fromy trying to use it for ground effect.
That would be like testing rear wing flex and bracing the test rig to the rear end plates....
Perspective - Understanding that sometimes the truths we cling to depend greatly on our own point of view.
The question is if they are passing whatever load tests the FIA are using, how do you determine what is “taking the piss” and what is “acceptable”; because neither is within the ‘spirit of the rules’ which calls for bodywork to be “rigid with reference to the spring platform of the car”?
The front wing flaps aren't tested at all. The FIA has only been testing the main plane, to prevent teams fromy trying to use it for ground effect.
That would be like testing rear wing flex and bracing the test rig to the rear end plates....
Honestly, i think the only reason the FIA cares as much as they do about the rear wing, is because it generates 1/3rd of the cars total drag. I'd be shocked if the front flaps generate more than 1%
The front wing flaps aren't tested at all. The FIA has only been testing the main plane, to prevent teams fromy trying to use it for ground effect.
That would be like testing rear wing flex and bracing the test rig to the rear end plates....
Honestly, i think the only reason the FIA cares as much as they do about the rear wing, is because it generates 1/3rd of the cars total drag. I'd be shocked if the front flaps generate more than 1%
It would be really interesting to know the frontal area change of both the Red Bull & Merc at, say, 300km/h compared with static.
Perspective - Understanding that sometimes the truths we cling to depend greatly on our own point of view.
The front wing flaps aren't tested at all. The FIA has only been testing the main plane, to prevent teams fromy trying to use it for ground effect.
That would be like testing rear wing flex and bracing the test rig to the rear end plates....
Honestly, i think the only reason the FIA cares as much as they do about the rear wing, is because it generates 1/3rd of the cars total drag. I'd be shocked if the front flaps generate more than 1%
Edit: Scarbs says over 30% in this video.
A change in AoA of the front wing could move air to different parts of the car and reduce drag that way.
The front wing flaps aren't tested at all. The FIA has only been testing the main plane, to prevent teams fromy trying to use it for ground effect.
That would be like testing rear wing flex and bracing the test rig to the rear end plates....
Honestly, i think the only reason the FIA cares as much as they do about the rear wing, is because it generates 1/3rd of the cars total drag. I'd be shocked if the front flaps generate more than 1%
Edit: Scarbs says over 30% in this video.
To be honest, 30% would not surprise me, it will vary from team to team; outwash is very draggy, so they manipulate the front flap flex to reduce it at speed, which then changes how the air flows through the centre-cluster (barge-boards) and onto the floor and rear wing.
Never forget, Ross Brawn was ecstatic that the world and their auntie were fixated on the double-diffuser, because nobody was looking at their front wing...!!!
Perspective - Understanding that sometimes the truths we cling to depend greatly on our own point of view.
That would be like testing rear wing flex and bracing the test rig to the rear end plates....
Honestly, i think the only reason the FIA cares as much as they do about the rear wing, is because it generates 1/3rd of the cars total drag. I'd be shocked if the front flaps generate more than 1%
Edit: Scarbs says over 30% in this video.
To be honest, 30% would not surprise me, it will vary from team to team; outwash is very draggy, so they manipulate the front flap flex to reduce it at speed, which then changes how the air flows through the centre-cluster (barge-boards) and onto the floor and rear wing.
Never forget, Ross Brawn was ecstatic that the world and their auntie were fixated on the double-diffuser, because nobody was looking at their front wing...!!!
The 30% refers to the rear wing, not the front wing. The front wing won't be nearly so high a percentage of the overall car drag..
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Toto has said that they brought this to the attention of the FIA last August and they are unhappy with how long it is taking the FIA to sort this out. They have tried to play by the FIA rules and so now it is time to protest the rear wings that move too much in a bid to make them all comply with the no moving aero.
The front wings no longer droop under load but the flaps compress at high speed, this could be outlawed too but all the teams use this effect at the moment so would end up hurting themselves if they were to protest about the flaps compressing.
So basically Mercedes are choosing which part of moveable aero to protest based on what benefits them the most? RBR and FIA are entitled not to play that game.
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The points is that flexible rear wings, flexible front wings and flexible sharkfins all comply with the rules. "Throwing the books" at Formula One teams for merely complying with the rules as required would be most bizarre and unprecedented.
You realize the FIA threw the book at RBR in Abu Dhabi 2014 over their front wings flexing right?
ON that front wing, did that front wing pass scrutineering ?
GoLandoGo
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Don't forget the budget cap angle. Lots of value have gone into making exactly this wing that acts in this way. If it has to be replaced it will take direct cost and computer or tunnel time to decide on, make, and develop the new wing, and even more time to refine it into the rest of the package removing knock-on mis-matches.
More than ever now in F1 time is money, and money if capped. Spend it here for no gain or spend it where the benefits come later in the year or next year. Merc are looking at the long game
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From the footage a lot of it is happening in the endplate, then probably some near the connection wing to support, maybe some is happening in the support itself or at least where it is connected to the car.
They could absolutely just slap another layer of carbon onto those parts to stiffen them up, question is whether they would then still work as well or if that wouldn't bring other issues with it.
The points is that flexible rear wings, flexible front wings and flexible sharkfins all comply with the rules. "Throwing the books" at Formula One teams for merely complying with the rules as required would be most bizarre and unprecedented.
You realize the FIA threw the book at RBR in Abu Dhabi 2014 over their front wings flexing right?
ON that front wing, did that front wing pass scrutineering ?
You realize the FIA threw the book at RBR in Abu Dhabi 2014 over their front wings flexing right?
ON that front wing, did that front wing pass scrutineering ?
Yes
And then the FIA DSq'd them on the saturday afternoon on the grounds that they 'thought their front wing flexed too much' ? If that was the case, then RedBull could very well be DSQ'd in Baku ?
GoLandoGo
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King George has arrived.
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No it was that they found proof that it was designed to flex and the flex wasn't just a 'byproduct' of the design.
Basically the same thing as now, really - the main difference is that they found some device (was it a spring?) that was clear proof of intention, they won't be able to take apart the carbon structure of the wing and claim the same.
In theory they could however just keep increasing the load on the standard test, check the deflection and find non-linearity? Dunno.
From the footage a lot of it is happening in the endplate, then probably some near the connection wing to support, maybe some is happening in the support itself or at least where it is connected to the car.
They could absolutely just slap another layer of carbon onto those parts to stiffen them up, question is whether they would then still work as well or if that wouldn't bring other issues with it.
It's probably a clever core material and lay up so it might actually need a new end plate design to make it stiff enough. Horner was saying half a million to change it but I bet it wouldn't be anything like that at all, unless there's more to it than just the end plates flexing.
The thing with these clever parts is that it adds ammunition for the FIA to further standardise parts in order to keep costs under control. "Your rear wing support structure will be laid up like this:"
I wonder if the 2022 cars will have scope for this sort of flexibility in the wings etc.
If you are more fortunate than others, build a larger table not a taller fence.
