FIA introduces £30m budget cap

[WhiteBlue]

* delimiters to be adjusted to median performance benchmark of class 1

Don't forget that delimiters work both way. And would you like to see if sum fukwit team would come with F3 chassis that would be given jet-engine and ground effect to be able to compete with upper class?

Lets assume that both classes reach the same average performance as the FIA promises. Then the F3 jet car must be streets ahead of the other fukwits to win the championship. Under such circumstances I would agree that they are champions. But the scenario is half witted anyway. The class 2 teams also have to stick to regulations like the 2.4 L V8 engine and the bodywork rules. They just get a faster diffusor, movable wings and unlimited revving engines.

And all those things are reigned in (revs limited, wing adjust angle, diffusor spec) by the efford to pull the two classes to the same median performance.

[pipex]

That "performance equalization" is crap. Why the FIA makes a mess of everything?
That is what you get when you mix things that are completely incompatible (technical freedom/budget cap)... in software terms its a hack to fix a flawed idea.

[WhiteBlue]

That "performance equalization" is crap. Why the FIA makes a mess of everything?
That is what you get when you mix things that are completely incompatible (technical freedom/budget cap)... in software terms its a hack to fix a flawed idea.

lets take the Ciro approach. You give me some numbers to show why that this idea is crap. everybody can throw bold statements around but few people can do figures to proove their ideas.

for starters I challenge your term of "performance equalization". nothing is being equalized except the performance of the two classes of regulations that will be competing. They will adjust the median level of class 2 to the median level of class 1 which is very fair, if achieved. The championship will be decided by the relative performance of each class against that median.

I will give some figures:

Let us assume that class 1 achieves a spread of 2 seconds per lap around Barcelona which we assume as the benchmark circuit. and let us also assume that the fastest time is 1:19. So 1:20 will be the median performance that the FIA will be shooting for the class 2 cars. They will reduce revs, wing angles and diffusor restrictors or ride height until the average class 2 gets to 1:20 as well. It should not be that difficult. The interesting aspect will be the spread of class 2. If that is 4 seconds instead of 2 seconds in class 1 the class two leader is likely to be substantially faster than the class 1 leader and he will win the season.

The same procedure may be executed at every circuit again determining the delimeters for the next race in order to adjust the handicap for class 2. The catch all clause will probably be used to adjust the delimiters in such a way that class 2 will not run away with a huge spread and an unfair advantage for their respective leader.

[Conceptual]

It seems funny that I spoke of this a while back as F1.5, the 2 class system, and I recall several members calling me a farking retard over it.

I don't know what the answer is other than a race series that is not dictated by the FIA, and run by Bernie Eccelstone.

The manufacturers would be better served by pulling out their 2008 cars, and running them on slicks in just Europe and the North America, and tell the FIA/FOM to go pound sand.

They would get 100% of the TV revenue, keep many of their sponsors (collect new ones with the inclusion of North America) and give the world a true thoroughbred championship that is not determined by politics of medal systems, but week-over-week consistancy. Some like the Flash in the Pan champion, I like the Old Faithful type personally.

Any news on GreenPrix USA?

[Agerasia]

It seems funny that I spoke of this a while back as F1.5, the 2 class system, and I recall several members calling me a farking retard over it.

I don't know what the answer is other than a race series that is not dictated by the FIA, and run by Bernie Eccelstone.

The manufacturers would be better served by pulling out their 2008 cars, and running them on slicks in just Europe and the North America, and tell the FIA/FOM to go pound sand.

They would get 100% of the TV revenue, keep many of their sponsors (collect new ones with the inclusion of North America) and give the world a true thoroughbred championship that is not determined by politics of medal systems, but week-over-week consistancy. Some like the Flash in the Pan champion, I like the Old Faithful type personally.

Any news on GreenPrix USA?

I can seriously see this happening if things continue the way they are.
Also why does technical freedom need a standard part? Which part would follow, and then after that and so on.
F1 is in serious danger of heading to the slippery slope of a spec series via the back door.

[timbo]

lets take the Ciro approach. You give me some numbers to show why that this idea is crap. everybody can throw bold statements around but few people can do figures to prove their ideas.

OK. This is kinda pointless remark as noone have exact figures what budgets teams had over the years, and what their expenses distribution was.
However, I heard that minardi's budget was around $70 million and that is probably as low as it can be. You can probably reduce that number by having standard parts. However, look at one of delimiters proposed - capless engines. One of the major points of lifetime increase for engine was to limit costs. How that works with unrestricted engine idea? Epic fail.

But the main thing that I hate in all that mess is idea of "adjustment" of freedoms. It must be set in stone or it is unfair to one or another side.

[safeaschuck]

What a load of shite, cap or no cap you cannot turn back the clock. It can't go from being a multi-billion pound business to being boiler suits and slide rules.
The sponsorship tie-ins are there, the kickbacks, the glitzy events, and if they disappear there are plenty of other sports teams and organisations ready to offer sponsers an audience, with the perks.
What are they going to do kick them out of their fancy new factories and put them under the railway arches?

Max is the Time Lord Perhaps?

And there was already talk of adding a few F3 cars to the grid when it looked like the whole shitfight was going to fall apart, just after Honda left, something to do with the T.V. contract specifying a minimum of 24(?) cars on the grid.

[Conceptual]

I just want to know if the FIA will cut the SuperLicense fee in line with cost cutting!

[czt]

I just want to know if the FIA will cut the SuperLicense fee in line with cost cutting!

Nah, it's ok - the drivers pay that from the own pockets rather than team budgets....

If these changes come to fruition, i'm really worried about the future of F1.

[ISLAMATRON]

as opposed to being worried when we were almost down to 18 cars this year because of the status quo?

[Scotracer]

as opposed to being worried when we were almost down to 18 cars this year because of the status quo?

Just because the current method isn't great doesn't mean any radical change will be better.

What I'm worried about is the the fact that the relative performance of the cars is directly related to the FIA's discretion - Max twiddling the knobs of the WDC even more than currently.

[Shaddock]

* delimiters to be adjusted to median performance benchmark of class 1

And all those things are reigned in (revs limited, wing adjust angle, diffusor spec) by the efford to pull the two classes to the same median performance.

I think you are being a bit naive to think that it will work in this way. The FIA ‘tweaking’ of performance will go on throughout the season to manipulate the results to get a grand stand finish at the last race of the season. It wont be the best driver or best chassis that wins, it will be whoever the FIA deem to they want to win the championship, and legally able to fix the results accordingly.

The FIA talk of innovation, the Red Bull this year is incredibly innovative, but is Mr Newey going to work for free in 2010 or will he still want paying his $10mil or 33% of the teams budget. If any thing is going to cause a split between the teams and the FIA this will be it.

[ISLAMATRON]

very true scotracer... but the cost must come down that is known... What is also known is that the new teams who want to come in dont just want to be backmarkers, they want a chance to compete with ideas since they dont/wont have money. Plus the big teams are reluctant to give up their big money advantage.

Granted the twiddling of MAx & co in not is not preferred but it already exists... example mass dampers & stewards ruling SPA 2008, so really it aint nothing new.

[NDR008]

I really don't know what to think in F1 anymore - the banning of certain F1 technology has always been the case, the mass damper was argue-ably a bit too suttle to be banned in comparison to ground effects and four steering wheels etc.

This optional rule thing initially made me thing "cool and interesting", however when I thought of how could this be implemented and managed I realised "these twats can't manage current regs get along a formula with effectively 2 classes..." I don't know I really think the FIA has lost all sense of direction - ABSOLUTELY, and what hurts me more is that fans around the world cry more or less the same voice and it is almost like the FIA is specificly targeting to disappoint us further just when we think it can't be any worse- perhaps we should try to organise one big massive petition or something.

FIA seems to constantly moving the goal post which surely keeps ramping up costs anyway... ARGGGGGGGGGG I REALLY DON'T KNOW WTF is going on anymore.

[WhiteBlue]

as opposed to being worried when we were almost down to 18 cars this year because of the status quo?

Just because the current method isn't great doesn't mean any radical change will be better.

What I'm worried about is the the fact that the relative performance of the cars is directly related to the FIA's discretion - Max twiddling the knobs of the WDC even more than currently.

This is plainly wrong. For class 1 the rules will be constant for the next 4 years. Performance adjustments will only apply to class two's absolute performance as a class. Relative performance will be totally untouched by the FIA. Please prop up your statement by any meaningfull figures or example in order to claim any credibility for your claim.