FIA introduces £30m budget cap

[Scotracer]

as opposed to being worried when we were almost down to 18 cars this year because of the status quo?

Just because the current method isn't great doesn't mean any radical change will be better.

What I'm worried about is the the fact that the relative performance of the cars is directly related to the FIA's discretion - Max twiddling the knobs of the WDC even more than currently.

This is plainly wrong. For class 1 the rules will be constant for the next 4 years. Performance adjustments will only apply to class two's absolute performance as a class. Relative performance will be totally untouched by the FIA. Please prop up your statement by any meaningfull figures or example in order to claim any credibility for your claim.

I don't know why you didn't understand what I wrote

Scenario A:

The Class "B" cars are better equiped for the season and by mid-season one of the teams (not just due to having more freedom but more consistent driving) is at the top of the tables. To keep the other teams (the Class A teams) Max will have to slow the other cars down to match therefore negating any professional advantage the Class B team might have had (i.e. they just had better designers & other staff).

You cannot have a sport with one potential winner and have two seperate rules to get to that point. Look at 2006 when STR had the V10s - no matter what happened everyone bitched about them until mid season when the V8s finally overtook on pure pace. And then you have the SEAT diesels in WTCC kicking everything's arse because the rules are slightly more favourable.

Governing body meddling to make things "equal" never works. One set of rules for all.

[ISLAMATRON]

excellent points Scotracer, you have shown me the light...

[tk421]

Don't know if anyone has mentioned it, but a budget cap seems like it would be a blessing for the USGP Team (if it actually forms). I share the opinion with those who say it's wrong to allow the FIA to equalize performance, but a part of me is happy just because tech development, for some teams at least, will be back. Have we heard what would happen after 2012?

[WhiteBlue]

The solution to one set of rules is quite simple. The rich teams decide to pocket a huge profit and join the budget cap club.

But if they stay with the present rules it is no problem either. The adjustments between classes will have to be made on a per race basis. The FIA can simply run a rolling data base of all lap times of the two classes and adjust the handicap or advantage on a dayly basis. So no huge performance gap between the classes can develop.

You are simply left with two classes of which one will have the chance to make huge profits and win the championship. The other will have just the chance to win and spend it all.

[nae]

hmm tech development for the 'b' teams
only until they are faster than the 'a' teams

[czt]

as opposed to being worried when we were almost down to 18 cars this year because of the status quo?

Just because the current method isn't great doesn't mean any radical change will be better.

What I'm worried about is the the fact that the relative performance of the cars is directly related to the FIA's discretion - Max twiddling the knobs of the WDC even more than currently.

Yep, having two sets of regs is a mess. F1 is supposed to be a meritocracy.

If the existing rules were more open, you could get smaller teams challenging since they have the ability to innovate and work smarter than their opposition. If anything interesting is developed, the fia come along and ban it.

[WhiteBlue]

Yep, having two sets of regs is a mess. F1 is supposed to be a meritocracy.

If the existing rules were more open, you could get smaller teams challenging since they have the ability to innovate and work smarter than their opposition. If anything interesting is developed, the fia come along and ban it.

If F1 were a meritocracy they would play on a level playing field with the same budget for all. Then the merits of the past would not translate to financial power but to profits for those who made the performance appear.

The present system is more like a fatcatocraty with rich teams spending ten times what small teams can afford at entry level.

I can imagine what will happen next year. We will probably have Volkswagen come into F1 pretty soon together with the speed TV bunch. Manufacturers like BMW and Toyota who run big motorsport activities will be able to dedicate some their surplus resources to other formulae like Le Mans, Dakkar, DTM, Rally and perhaps some electric racing.

[czt]

If F1 were a meritocracy they would play on a level playing field with the same budget for all. Then the merits of the past would not translate to financial power but to profits for those who made the performance appear.

The present system is more like a fatcatocraty with rich teams spending ten times what small teams can afford at entry level.

Raising the budget is all part of the game. In recent times, Jordan was a master of marketing his team in such a way that it appealed to the public and they built some successful seasons upon that.

Rules like these rip the soul out of what F1 stands for. I'm all for allowing teams to choose a spec engine like the cosworth proposal which would provide a cost limited platform which teams could use to enter the sport, but the big boys should be allowed to raise whatever budget they can and deploy it how they like.

[armil]

Another problem I see is how can the FIA will measure the budget of a team. per example if Ferrari want to stay in the class 2 thay can have most of the R&D done by FIAT. How can the FIA have a correct budget if AMD send engineers to Italy to work in the Ferrari and charges nothing except the little ad in the car. how can you regulate those things.
Car manufacturing teams will have a huge advantage over small teams

[safeaschuck]

This would be a great way to keep the lesser (particularly late coming/independant) teams in their place though?

MAX: So what, you never win? stop complaining, it only cost you 30 mill and you made that back in sponsorship already.

Then the fiddling and manipulating can continue with much fewer complaints than were raised when people actually spent money competing.

It's an ideal setup if the car manufacturers are going to be backing away from the sport... And lets be honest, more will go unless they start making money in the real world. You can only idle factories, the lifeblood of your company, for so long before you have to admit that perhaps a Formula 1 operation is a bit extravagent.
Even if the Cuts were to make the sport financially viable for manufactureres can you imagine them getting behind this proposal - A car manufacturer, a company which is an expert in automotive technology, an industrial powerhouse, with considerable, relevant, knowledge, staff, technology and resources is prepared to put their reputation on the line at every race - Will be are on a totally equal footing with a guy or company that made their millions in I.T/Pharma/Legal services/insurance and is doing it for the Ad revenue,
Expect a car manufacturer to consider that a level playing field?
They'll be out of it! One or two may continue making engines at best.

What it could possibly be though is an ideal breeding ground for a ten year showcase of Ferrari Whupping the independant's!

[WhiteBlue]

... the big boys should be allowed to raise whatever budget they can and deploy it how they like.

that would bring down F1 in 1-2 seasons. F1 was good competition until the fat cats emerged from the middle of the 90ties. Then it all went downhill with opportunities for new guys. You had to have an entry ticket close to a billion dollars to build a new team to competiotive levels. B MW have proven that they can do it. Still they spend such vast amounts to get there.

[Chaparral]

I doubt any of the current teams will sign up for the 30 million cap and will continue to bring down the costs themselves via FOTA - then what does Moley and his FIA do.....this along with the winners are grinners drivers system - its just opening up a giant chasm between FOTA and the FIA which will see something break......never ending circus isnt it

[WhiteBlue]

Another problem I see is how can the FIA will measure the budget of a team. per example if Ferrari want to stay in the class 2 thay can have most of the R&D done by FIAT. How can the FIA have a correct budget if AMD send engineers to Italy to work in the Ferrari and charges nothing except the little ad in the car. how can you regulate those things.
Car manufacturing teams will have a huge advantage over small teams

It involves very tough reviews and a lot of accountants which will profit as a profession where the engineers will loose. That is indeed sad but a necessary evil.

[Rob W]

This budget cap idea is just ludicrous. As I've said before, elsewhere here, there is absolutely no way to manage/test/check the budget of an F1 team. Moreso, there are geographical differences, not to mention local employment nuances, which will either benefit or detriment teams operating out of certain countries.

F1 needs to be simplified, not made more complex. The teams and the vast majority of spectators/viewers want to be able to understand where something stands simply and intuitively. The FIA seems intent on applying the same fuzzy logic they've used in recent years with race-day marshal rulings to the technical requirements now. It will end in major gripes without doubt.

Simplify simplify simplify is the key to making the sport better, not millions of rules which apply to some and not others and ones you can opt out of.

Check this for the impossible:

...This figure will cover all expenditure of any kind. Anything subsidised or supplied free will be deemed to have cost its full commercial value and rigorous auditing procedures will apply.

This goes exactly with my comment above about how 'do you value' what something costs? In Italy you might need to import a material for X but in the UK it might be 20% cheaper. Staff (on union rules) might cost 15% more in German than Italy. Likewise, as someone else mentioned ages ago - get one of your suppliers to develop and test a product for you, then you only pay for the product. Since there is no actual 'market' rate (as it's not for sale anywhere) how do you cost it? They may have reached the final version of it in two attempts... or nine. End product: the same, actual cost: totally different.

Pretty much the only idea I read in this all which I thought was a good idea was this:

Any driver retiring before the end of the race must make himself available for media interviews after his return to the paddock.

[WhiteBlue]

I doubt any of the current teams will sign up for the 30 million cap ....

Williams sure will like to make a tidy profit. They can expand to other areas of motor sport to employ their excess resources, like they do now for F2. No reason why they cannot compete in Le Mans or IRL.