2021 French Grand Prix - Le Castellet, June 18 - 20

[RZS10]

They haven't increased the pressures for this race (yet) , have they?

[zibby43]

They haven't increased the pressures for this race (yet) , have they?

Nope. Sticking with the numbers on page 1 for the time being.

[dans79]

Or they just tighten some protocols to make sure that everyone actually runs with the minimum tyre pressures? They don't have to increase anything if no one tries to run them lower ....

Some interesting stuff here.
https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/f1-te ... s/6572415/

In a technical directive sent to teams ahead of the Paul Ricard race, the FIA reminded teams that it was their responsibility to ensure that the running pressure of tyres were above those stipulated in the prescriptions laid down by Pirelli.

However, it was accepted that there was no way to currently police the running pressures in a reliable way because tyres cannot be checked when the car is out on track.

While teams do have their own sensors and data to monitor tyre pressures, such systems are not reliable enough and the data not robust enough to be established evidence for rule breaches.

So in a bid to confirm that teams are maintaining tyre pressures in a satisfactory way, tyres will now be checked after they have been run on cars.

Sets will be selected at random from practice and qualifying sessions, while every race set will be checked after they have been used.

Tyres due to undergo testing will have seals added to ensure that teams cannot play around with the pressures prior to the checks. No re-inflation of the tyre will be allowed.

The FIA has laid out procedures for the cold pressure checks and they must fall in line with a Pirelli figure that it believes the tyres should be left at when cold.

Further checks with Infrared cameras are also being introduced on tyre temperatures to ensure teams are not overheating them in their blankets in a bid to get the pressures up prior to the pre-running checks.

Where previously teams only had to comply with the minimum starting pressures of tyres, now the need to pass the post-running checks means that they will not be able to use tyres consistently below Pirelli’s guidance figures.

It sounds like Pirelli is trying to indirectly say that some teams are using the blankets to get the tires just warm enough to pass the minimum pressure tests. Then when the blankets come off the temps drop and the pressures do as well.

It sounds kind of iffy to me, because while you would benefit from lower pressures, you'd be hindered by lower temperatures. Not to mention I'm a little hard pressed to see how you could keep the temps up and pressures low over a long stint.

You have to wonder, why haven't they been the new procedures all along. This is just another scenario, that shows FIA is kind of like a naive grandmother that thinks her grandchildren are perfect angels.

[zibby43]

Or they just tighten some protocols to make sure that everyone actually runs with the minimum tyre pressures? They don't have to increase anything if no one tries to run them lower ....

Some interesting stuff here.
https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/f1-te ... s/6572415/

In a technical directive sent to teams ahead of the Paul Ricard race, the FIA reminded teams that it was their responsibility to ensure that the running pressure of tyres were above those stipulated in the prescriptions laid down by Pirelli.

However, it was accepted that there was no way to currently police the running pressures in a reliable way because tyres cannot be checked when the car is out on track.

While teams do have their own sensors and data to monitor tyre pressures, such systems are not reliable enough and the data not robust enough to be established evidence for rule breaches.

So in a bid to confirm that teams are maintaining tyre pressures in a satisfactory way, tyres will now be checked after they have been run on cars.

Sets will be selected at random from practice and qualifying sessions, while every race set will be checked after they have been used.

Tyres due to undergo testing will have seals added to ensure that teams cannot play around with the pressures prior to the checks. No re-inflation of the tyre will be allowed.

The FIA has laid out procedures for the cold pressure checks and they must fall in line with a Pirelli figure that it believes the tyres should be left at when cold.

Further checks with Infrared cameras are also being introduced on tyre temperatures to ensure teams are not overheating them in their blankets in a bid to get the pressures up prior to the pre-running checks.

Where previously teams only had to comply with the minimum starting pressures of tyres, now the need to pass the post-running checks means that they will not be able to use tyres consistently below Pirelli’s guidance figures.

It sounds like Pirelli is trying to indirectly say that some teams are using the blankets to get the tires just warm enough to pass the minimum pressure tests. Then when the blankets come off the temps drop and the pressures do as well.

It sounds kind of iffy to me, because while you would benefit from lower pressures, you'd be hindered by lower temperatures. Not to mention I'm a little hard pressed to see how you could keep the temps up and pressures low over a long stint.

You have to wonder, why haven't they been the new procedures all along. This is just another scenario, that shows FIA is kind of like a naive grandmother that thinks her grandchildren are perfect angels.

It’s truly shocking that in some areas where the most lap time can be gained (for example, the tires), there is no more than an honor system to enforce the rules.

I was just about to post an Italian technical article excerpt that actually corroborates everything you set out above:

And then there is the tire issue which has once again raised an important fuss regarding pressures after the problems encountered in Baku.

What happened in Verstappen and Stroll in Azerbaijan is due to a circumferential break on the inner side of the tires , which can be related to the conditions of use, despite the prescribed starting parameters (minimum pressure and maximum temperature of the electric blankets) have been respected. .

However, in the FIA , and also in Pirelli, there would be the impression that at least three teams 'play' a lot with operating pressures , without respecting the minimum requirements allowed by the Italian-Chinese supplier.

The FIA ​​check takes place before the start, and on a few second (or third) sets of the race. But in the race the teams , using more or less sophisticated technical solutions, try to keep the pressure as low as possible to have a performance advantage .

Fia and Pirelli reacted immediately by tightening up the protocols , the only immediate solution not having, for now, a precise control in real time of the pressures on the various cars.

The sensors used by the teams this season can in fact be appropriately 'modified' so as not to show the real pressures to the controllers.

For this reason, standardized sensors (Tire pressure sensors, TPMS) will be installed on the next generation of tires, which will allow the FIA ​​and Pirelli to have access to reliable data relating to pressure and temperature. Not only the internal air, but also the carcass and the new 18 ″ rims.

The most important novelty of the revision of the safety protocols is that the French GP will carry out cold checks on the pressure of the tires used to set the fastest time in Q3, as well as all those used in the race.

Thanks to a 'cooling curve' imposed by Pirelli, it will be possible to verify whether the pressure is correct or lower than the theoretical one with that particular temperature of the tire. In the latter case, the team will be reported to the stewards who will subsequently make their assessments.

With this 'novelty' it will be easily verifiable if any team alters the composition in the inflation gas to reduce the humidity contained.

Just as it will no longer be possible to remove the electric blankets for more than 30 seconds before the car hits the track

https://www.formu1a.uno/flexi-wing-e-pr ... ul-ricard/

[zibby43]

And now perhaps the biggest bombshell TD of the season:

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/f1-t ... p/6572403/

[NathanOlder]

Or they just tighten some protocols to make sure that everyone actually runs with the minimum tyre pressures? They don't have to increase anything if no one tries to run them lower ....

Some interesting stuff here.
https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/f1-te ... s/6572415/

In a technical directive sent to teams ahead of the Paul Ricard race, the FIA reminded teams that it was their responsibility to ensure that the running pressure of tyres were above those stipulated in the prescriptions laid down by Pirelli.

However, it was accepted that there was no way to currently police the running pressures in a reliable way because tyres cannot be checked when the car is out on track.

While teams do have their own sensors and data to monitor tyre pressures, such systems are not reliable enough and the data not robust enough to be established evidence for rule breaches.

So in a bid to confirm that teams are maintaining tyre pressures in a satisfactory way, tyres will now be checked after they have been run on cars.

Sets will be selected at random from practice and qualifying sessions, while every race set will be checked after they have been used.

Tyres due to undergo testing will have seals added to ensure that teams cannot play around with the pressures prior to the checks. No re-inflation of the tyre will be allowed.

The FIA has laid out procedures for the cold pressure checks and they must fall in line with a Pirelli figure that it believes the tyres should be left at when cold.

Further checks with Infrared cameras are also being introduced on tyre temperatures to ensure teams are not overheating them in their blankets in a bid to get the pressures up prior to the pre-running checks.

Where previously teams only had to comply with the minimum starting pressures of tyres, now the need to pass the post-running checks means that they will not be able to use tyres consistently below Pirelli’s guidance figures.

It sounds like Pirelli is trying to indirectly say that some teams are using the blankets to get the tires just warm enough to pass the minimum pressure tests. Then when the blankets come off the temps drop and the pressures do as well.

It sounds kind of iffy to me, because while you would benefit from lower pressures, you'd be hindered by lower temperatures. Not to mention I'm a little hard pressed to see how you could keep the temps up and pressures low over a long stint.

You have to wonder, why haven't they been the new procedures all along. This is just another scenario, that shows FIA is kind of like a naive grandmother that thinks her grandchildren are perfect angels.

It’s truly shocking that in some areas where the most lap time can be gained (for example, the tires), there is no more than an honor system to enforce the rules.

I was just about to post an Italian technical article excerpt that actually corroborates everything you set out above:

And then there is the tire issue which has once again raised an important fuss regarding pressures after the problems encountered in Baku.

What happened in Verstappen and Stroll in Azerbaijan is due to a circumferential break on the inner side of the tires , which can be related to the conditions of use, despite the prescribed starting parameters (minimum pressure and maximum temperature of the electric blankets) have been respected. .

However, in the FIA , and also in Pirelli, there would be the impression that at least three teams 'play' a lot with operating pressures , without respecting the minimum requirements allowed by the Italian-Chinese supplier.

The FIA ​​check takes place before the start, and on a few second (or third) sets of the race. But in the race the teams , using more or less sophisticated technical solutions, try to keep the pressure as low as possible to have a performance advantage .

Fia and Pirelli reacted immediately by tightening up the protocols , the only immediate solution not having, for now, a precise control in real time of the pressures on the various cars.

The sensors used by the teams this season can in fact be appropriately 'modified' so as not to show the real pressures to the controllers.

For this reason, standardized sensors (Tire pressure sensors, TPMS) will be installed on the next generation of tires, which will allow the FIA ​​and Pirelli to have access to reliable data relating to pressure and temperature. Not only the internal air, but also the carcass and the new 18 ″ rims.

The most important novelty of the revision of the safety protocols is that the French GP will carry out cold checks on the pressure of the tires used to set the fastest time in Q3, as well as all those used in the race.

Thanks to a 'cooling curve' imposed by Pirelli, it will be possible to verify whether the pressure is correct or lower than the theoretical one with that particular temperature of the tire. In the latter case, the team will be reported to the stewards who will subsequently make their assessments.

With this 'novelty' it will be easily verifiable if any team alters the composition in the inflation gas to reduce the humidity contained.

Just as it will no longer be possible to remove the electric blankets for more than 30 seconds before the car hits the track

https://www.formu1a.uno/flexi-wing-e-pr ... ul-ricard/

Very interesting, so Pirelli are claiming up to 3 teams are cheating on the tyre pressures! Plenty of talking points off the track this weekend now with new Tyre and Rear Wing tests!

[TimW]

And now perhaps the biggest bombshell TD of the season:

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/f1-t ... p/6572403/

A bit surprised that they don't mandate maximum straight line and cornering speeds yet...

[ispano6]

Ridiculous, Pirelli should be responsible for filling the tyres on cold/ambient temperature wheels to the teams requested allowed pressures and seal them and hand them back to the teams. And how do they propose to measure tires after they have failed? These tyres should be able to run flat and tyre wall integrity should not have to be a concern. This just points to a shoddy construction and teams that have suffered huge repair costs should be covered by Pirelli outside of the cost cap.

[nzjrs]

Haha, called it. I predicted that pinning this on the delayed standardized TPMS would give Pirelli a novel new excuse pathway which casts blame on the FIA and the teams simultaneously.

[BassVirolla]

It sounds kind of iffy to me, because while you would benefit from lower pressures, you'd be hindered by lower temperatures. Not to mention I'm a little hard pressed to see how you could keep the temps up and pressures low over a long stint.

You have to wonder, why haven't they been the new procedures all along. This is just another scenario, that shows FIA is kind of like a naive grandmother that thinks her grandchildren are perfect angels.

I only see it feasible by means of inflating cold tyres with massively hot air. This will allow low pressures and hot tyres when the tyre and the air inside it are at equal temperatures.

The "cooling curve check" will eliminate this possibility.

[SiLo]

What could teams do realistically to circumvent the pressures? Develop a valve that releases air really really slow and self seals or something?

As much as everyone is quick to point the finger at Pirelli, there is a history of teams doing whatever they can to get an advantage from the tyres so it really would not surprise me if they were trying some more complicated things.

[nzjrs]

What could teams do realistically to circumvent the pressures? Develop a valve that releases air really really slow and self seals or something?

As much as everyone is quick to point the finger at Pirelli, there is a history of teams doing whatever they can to get an advantage from the tyres so it really would not surprise me if they were trying some more complicated things.

I searched around a bit and found an analysis of how Mercedes were "cheating the rules" https://www.auto-motor-und-sport.de/for ... eiz-trick/ a few years ago.

I'd expect they have quite some experience in this area

Maybe it's no coincidence that the Mercedes satellite team is implicated by Pirelli, especially considering they share a lot of the parts needed for suspension or drum mediated tire heating/cooling

Or Pirelli could be full of ---.

[basti313]

What could teams do realistically to circumvent the pressures? Develop a valve that releases air really really slow and self seals or something?

As much as everyone is quick to point the finger at Pirelli, there is a history of teams doing whatever they can to get an advantage from the tyres so it really would not surprise me if they were trying some more complicated things.

I searched around a bit and found an analysis of how Mercedes were "cheating the rules" https://www.auto-motor-und-sport.de/for ... eiz-trick/ a few years ago.

I'd expect they have quite some experience in this area

Maybe it's no coincidence that the Mercedes satellite team is implicated by Pirelli, especially considering they share a lot of the parts needed for suspension or drum mediated tire heating/cooling

Or Pirelli could be full of ---.

Yes, no miracles.
If you look at the top teams Merc and Bull are on top of legal tricks. Ferrari is missing them constantly and failing the implementation by stupidity into irregular means.
That Aston has the same trick as Merc is also not surprising. Furthermore with Merc, Bull and Aston you have the three teams with such blown tires in this and last year.

What speaks against this theory is a bit that Merc was the only team taking double warmup laps. This speaks for a different tire preparation procedure. Now given the Bulls play with hot air in the tire that needs to cool, then they warm the surface quickly for one quick lap...does the Merc not have such a hot tire from the beginning and needs to warm the full tire or is it even more extreme on the Merc like they need more than one lap to cool it? The latter makes sense in Monaco, but on a long track like Baku???
Or is it the design of Baku that makes the trick in general difficult to use? I mean that S3 and S1 are only good for cooling and S2 is only good for heating the surface. But the heat you quickly generate in S2 you loose before starting the hot lap.

Very interesting topic.

[dans79]

I searched around a bit and found an analysis of how Mercedes were "cheating the rules" https://www.auto-motor-und-sport.de/for ... eiz-trick/ a few years ago.

I'd expect they have quite some experience in this area

yea this claim of the article isn't legal.

Mercedes supposedly always has its own tire test bench with them, which measures the stiffness of the tires provided. Smaller teams like Force India do the complicated measurements with simpler tools. Complicated because the stiffness of the tire is temperature dependent. 2 degrees can make a huge difference.

https://www.fia.com/sites/default/files ... -05-17.pdf
24.5 Testing of tyres:

From the time at which each Competitor receives fitted tyres from the Supplier at or
before an Event these may not be used on any rig, simulator or vehicle, other than the F1
car for which they were intended.

Tyres supplied to any Competitor at any time may not be used on any rig or vehicle (other
than an F1 car on an F1 approved track, at the exclusion of any kind of road simulator),
either Competitor owned or rented, providing measurements of forces and/or moments
produced by a rotating full size F1 tyre, other than uniquely vertical forces, tyre rolling
resistance and aerodynamic drag.

[nzjrs]

I searched around a bit and found an analysis of how Mercedes were "cheating the rules" https://www.auto-motor-und-sport.de/for ... eiz-trick/ a few years ago.

I'd expect they have quite some experience in this area

yea this claim of the article isn't legal.

Mercedes supposedly always has its own tire test bench with them, which measures the stiffness of the tires provided. Smaller teams like Force India do the complicated measurements with simpler tools. Complicated because the stiffness of the tire is temperature dependent. 2 degrees can make a huge difference.

https://www.fia.com/sites/default/files ... -05-17.pdf
24.5 Testing of tyres:

From the time at which each Competitor receives fitted tyres from the Supplier at or
before an Event these may not be used on any rig, simulator or vehicle, other than the F1
car for which they were intended.

Tyres supplied to any Competitor at any time may not be used on any rig or vehicle (other
than an F1 car on an F1 approved track, at the exclusion of any kind of road simulator),
either Competitor owned or rented, providing measurements of forces and/or moments
produced by a rotating full size F1 tyre, other than uniquely vertical forces, tyre rolling
resistance and aerodynamic drag.

Off topic, but 'Reifenprüfstand' isn't in contradiction with 'rig', 'simulator' or 'vehicle' as I read it in German, but it would have depended on how those words were defined when Mercedes was 'cheating' <not my words, it depends on intent, right?> in 2016.

In any case, I think Pirelli is the one full of --- here.