BrawnGP

[Rob W]

...So what makes you think they are are running a super-methodical testing system aimed at set-ups for each race throughout the year (given the reduces testing this year) and are, in specific race trim, much faster than they would appear?

I should point out that McLaren set the 3rd fastest lap set all week at Jerez today.

[CHT]

...So what makes you think they are are running a super-methodical testing system aimed at set-ups for each race throughout the year (given the reduces testing this year) and are, in specific race trim, much faster than they would appear?

I should point out that McLaren set the 3rd fastest lap set all week at Jerez today.

with good weather and more rubber being laid on the ground, I would expect them to do better too. btw do you have any idea what were they doing yesterday? preparing for Australia qualifying pace, long run or still testing new aero parts?

[Matt Somers]

Heikki's best time from yesterday: 1:18.203

[myurr]

...So what makes you think they are are running a super-methodical testing system aimed at set-ups for each race throughout the year (given the reduces testing this year) and are, in specific race trim, much faster than they would appear?

I should point out that McLaren set the 3rd fastest lap set all week at Jerez today.

with good weather and more rubber being laid on the ground, I would expect them to do better too. btw do you have any idea what were they doing yesterday? preparing for Australia qualifying pace, long run or still testing new aero parts?

It was a full race simulation - so it could even be that they set that lap time with Q3 fuel loads rather than fumes in Q1.

[myurr]

Lets not forget 1 thing here...Seasonal development will not be too radical as ther is no in season testing this year. I think that the team that starts the strongest will end the strongest!!

They can still test parts on a Friday and with the development monsters like McLaren and Ferrari where they gain on average 0.1 - 0.2 seconds per lap for each grand prix I think that Brawn are going to struggle to keep up over the course of the season.

[freedom_honda]

I heard they will be waiting for Merc's system and won't be using it until the end of the season.

Honda did tested a flywheel KERS system which they developed with flybrid. If weight is a big factor in the KERS, I dont see why they would want to use the Mclaren battery KERS system because the flywheel is about half the weight and doesnt have any cooling problem.

because the team has stopped the development of their KERS system when Honda pulled the plug. Plus that KERS system belongs to Honda Motor Ltd. Not the team. But i dont think that was ever the issue. It was simply BrawnGP does not have the resources to develop the car and KERS systeam at the same time.

[Rob W]

with good weather and more rubber being laid on the ground, I would expect them to do better too. btw do you have any idea what were they doing yesterday? preparing for Australia qualifying pace, long run or still testing new aero parts?

Not sure it's a simple as that. Race tracks don't hold their grip day to day anything like they do in one day - let alone with only four cars running. Good weather (if, by that you meant 'warm') isn't always the best for speed either.

As someone pointed out above - it was something like a 70+ lap run too so it's not like they were practising in-laps on fumes.

If McLaren turn up in the first couple of races and smoke everyone on the grid how many people will suddenly go "wow their testing regime was tops" as if, all along they somehow aren't amongst the most skilled car developers/testers on the planet?

None... well at least not anyone who cares to look at McLaren's history.

[kilcoo316]

They can still test parts on a Friday and with the development monsters like McLaren and Ferrari where they gain on average 0.1 - 0.2 seconds per lap for each grand prix I think that Brawn are going to struggle to keep up over the course of the season.

Would that be the same team that improved their originally crap car to a winning one in 2006?

[CHT]

with good weather and more rubber being laid on the ground, I would expect them to do better too. btw do you have any idea what were they doing yesterday? preparing for Australia qualifying pace, long run or still testing new aero parts?

Not sure it's a simple as that. Race tracks don't hold their grip day to day anything like they do in one day - let alone with only four cars running. Good weather (if, by that you meant 'warm') isn't always the best for speed either.

As someone pointed out above - it was something like a 70+ lap run too so it's not like they were practising in-laps on fumes.

If McLaren turn up in the first couple of races and smoke everyone on the grid how many people will suddenly go "wow their testing regime was tops" as if, all along they somehow aren't amongst the most skilled car developers/testers on the planet?

None... well at least not anyone who cares to look at McLaren's history.

You could be right and Nakajima just did a 1:17.494 lap time yesterday, about 4 tenth of a second faster than the fastest time Mclaren did at Jerez throughout the week.

And I suppose it has got nothing to do with rubber here right?

[tk421]

You could be right and Nakajima just did a 1:17.494 lap time yesterday, about 4 tenth of a second faster than the fastest time Mclaren did at Jerez throughout the week. And I suppose it has got nothing to do with rubber here right?

I also think the times have much to do with rubber.

Race tracks don't hold their grip day to day

What about Friday Practice leading to Saturday Qualifying leading to The Race (particularly at a place like Melbourne): do you still believe that the rubber on the track from Friday doesn't build up toward Saturday (qualifying) and again build up toward Sunday (race start)? The times get quicker and quicker each day especially in a place like Melbourne...
Nakajima's time compared to McSlow today is meaningful (same track conditions), but Nakajima's time compared to BrawnGP, I think, is more representative: Button ran a 1.17.844 two days ago when the track was not "rubbered in."
Now an IMO: every circuit, no matter what circuit it is, gets better from day to day. Rob W is saying that the "rubbering" process doesn't effect lap times. So I ask him, when was the last time Rob W saw a Grand Prix where the Friday practice time was faster than the fastest lap race, much less the fastest qualifying lap. In other words, (words which you will hear from every driver during the course of a season): the "rubbering process" happens on every circuit....

[Rob W]

I also think the times have much to do with rubber.

Fair enough. But I think you overestimate how much it helps. It doesn't make cars go 9km/h faster on the straight.

If McLaren were slow on day three they aint suddenly half a second faster on day four just because of the rubber.

During race weekends even each morning when the cars go out on track it is generally not as good track as the end of session from the day before (factoring out the weather influences). And that is with most of the field running.. Imagine the difference with only four cars.

It's still my opinion, especially comparing the speed on the straights between McLaren and Brawn, that they're not too worried about impressing the other teams in testing and are instead being methodical in aiming for in-season pace.

[CHT]

I also think the times have much to do with rubber.

Fair enough. But I think you overestimate how much it helps. It doesn't make cars go 9km/h faster on the straight.

If McLaren were slow on day three they aint suddenly half a second faster on day four just because of the rubber.

During race weekends even each morning when the cars go out on track it is generally not as good track as the end of session from the day before (factoring out the weather influences). And that is with most of the field running.. Imagine the difference with only four cars.

It's still my opinion, especially comparing the speed on the straights between McLaren and Brawn, that they're not too worried about impressing the other teams in testing and are instead being methodical in aiming for in-season pace.

If you want to make your car go fastest on straight, all you need to do is to reduce the drag of your car by sacrificing the downforce, just like how the teams will set up their cars for Monza.

Unfortunately in F1, you dont score points for being the fastest on the straight, instead you score point by finishing the race as the fastest driver around the track. Plus most time are gained and lost around corners, not on the straight.

[Rob W]

If you want to make your car go fastest on straight, all you need to do is to reduce the drag of your car by sacrificing...

Unfortunately in F1, you dont score points for being the fastest on the straight etc.....

Thanks for this - I've only been involved in F1 for a decade and wasn't aware of this.

As for not scoring points for being fastest on the straight - I wasn't implying you do - just that it is faulty logic to imply or state that McLaren are only fast because there is tons of rubber on the track after three days. Moreso because we don't have knowledge of their specific testing schedule and aims that somehow they must be having a necessarily bad run.

Likewise, since the total lap was also fast, it would sort of be indicative of a car set up not merely for a low drag top-speed attempt of sorts.

Extrapolating pre-season test results to the actual season-ending results generally show that they are not very reliable. McLaren are not muppets and to suggest that their car is suddenly fast on a day when most teams have gone home is significantly due to the track having lots of rubber on it is just simplistic in the least - in logic and in modern F1 history. There are dozens of factors, the most likely in my opinion being they let loose on it on day 4 after a planned, scheduled test regime and once most other teams had gone home.

If it were the case that pre-season testing was a truly reliable indicator of the season ahead anything beyond general trends then Toyota would have won half a dozen races over the past few years.

[CHT]

If you want to make your car go fastest on straight, all you need to do is to reduce the drag of your car by sacrificing...

Unfortunately in F1, you dont score points for being the fastest on the straight etc.....

Thanks for this - I've only been involved in F1 for a decade and wasn't aware of this.

As for not scoring points for being fastest on the straight - I wasn't implying you do - just that it is faulty logic to imply or state that McLaren are only fast because there is tons of rubber on the track after three days. Moreso because we don't have knowledge of their specific testing schedule and aims that somehow they must be having a necessarily bad run.

Likewise, since the total lap was also fast, it would sort of be indicative of a car set up not merely for a low drag top-speed attempt of sorts.

Extrapolating pre-season test results to the actual season-ending results generally show that they are not very reliable. McLaren are not muppets and to suggest that their car is suddenly fast on a day when most teams have gone home is significantly due to the track having lots of rubber on it is just simplistic in the least - in logic and in modern F1 history. There are dozens of factors, the most likely in my opinion being they let loose on it on day 4 after a planned, scheduled test regime and once most other teams had gone home.

If it were the case that pre-season testing was a truly reliable indicator of the season ahead anything beyond general trends then Toyota would have won half a dozen races over the past few years.

I dont think anybody here is capable or interested in predicting the outcome of this year's championship simply by looking at the pre-season test result. However one should be able to get a sense of who are on top and who are struggling from the test result at Barcelona because that is the most important testing ground of the season, and history has shown that, if you are strong at pre-season test at bareclona, you should be strong in the first few fly away races at the start of the season.

If rubber doesnt play a part in improving the track time at Jerez, then can I say that Williams is now the top team as Nakajima sets the fastest lap time thoughout the entire week at Jerez??

[myurr]

I dont think anybody here is capable or interested in predicting the outcome of this year's championship simply by looking at the pre-season test result. However one should be able to get a sense of who are on top and who are struggling from the test result at Barcelona because that is the most important testing ground of the season, and history has shown that, if you are strong at pre-season test at bareclona, you should be strong in the first few fly away races at the start of the season.

If rubber doesnt play a part in improving the track time at Jerez, then can I say that Williams is now the top team as Nakajima sets the fastest lap time thoughout the entire week at Jerez??

Underestimate Williams at your peril - they've been running a pretty anonymous test program thus far and I think it's only with the recent Rosberg and Nakajima runs that they've really gone for outright pace with the final aero spec on the car.

My personal prediction is that the race pace at the initial races is something like this:

Brawn out in front.
Ferrari, Toyota, BMW and Williams forming the chasing pack.
McLaren just nudging into that pack.
Renault and Redbull only slightly behind them, occasionally able to hook it up and trouble that pack.
Toro Rosso and Force India a little bit further back.